Eusi Kwayana remembers Walter Rodney on Black Truth Radio

2:07BGlory’s coming on the morning now. I already I said glory’s coming on the morning now.

2:19ANow, now, Paul.

2:20BLove far I said I will sing of what I’ve been through.

2:27A3 more choruses. 3 more choruses.

2:31BI shall be happy as the day shines on. Glory’s coming on the morning now.

2:39CAnyone belong?

2:42BOut of Babylon, here we come.

2:46CHere we were when we remember Zion.

2:50BCutting and clearing, renting and tearing to fear in. 7, 9, 13 miles of blocks and liner ship. Going up the harbor, the mountainside, up the Nile. And I wipe you off from Kiev to Cairo. Timber 1 to Timber 2, Dakar. To devote to all the most high. One black city of one black Nigeria. One black and all the most high. All humans in a bond free and equal within dignity and right. I adore with reason and conscience. How should I to all man another in a spirit? Yes, I blood out all the most high. Papa polite. Singa jarat safarai. Singa. Hey, stay lucky. Rise up, rise up, rise up.

3:46DBlessed love, my Lord and Empress. Give thanks for tuning in to Black Truth Radio. This is the O’Sean Everprest, Jaja, Ethiopia, Africa, back in the National Congress Church of True Divine Salvation. Yes, we give thanks for all of those listening, tuning in. For those who’s online, uh, go ahead and spread the word. Those who have Twitter, you can go ahead and tweet. Let them know that Black Truth Radio is on the air. And tonight we have a special program lined up for ones and ones. Um, as you know, it’s remembering Walter Rodney. We have an honorable guest who’s going to be calling in -- are we going to be calling out, matter of fact -- um, who was an elder from Guyana who’s been working since the early ’40s, or the mid-’40s I should say, you know, serving, uh, the people.

4:50DThat’s about over 50 years, 60 years of public service. It’s the Honorable Eusi Kwayana. And, uh, being that Honorable Prophet Kwame Regent lined him up. I guess he went to school with his son. He lined up the interview, so we give thanks to Prophet Kwame, and we’re going to have him as our special co-host for the night. And I see his hand raised. Let me bring him on the air. Bless you, love, my love.

5:22AKing Emmanuel the 7th.

5:23DAdonia.

5:27ATo our Father, to the Son, to the Holy One of Creation. As God was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. Without him, so is our God, King Celestial. All right, for our Black Ethiopian International Black Congress Church of Salvation, our church stand above all other organizations, you know. Give thanks for, you know, all life in the mighty life giver, King Emmanuel the 7th. Adonia, God. Yeah, stop fire. Bless you, love my Lord. Honorable, bless you, love all Black Truth Radio. Honorable Priest Jagger, how is the eye, my Lord?

6:09DYes, my Lord, there, you know, keeping the fire burning, you know. Thanks. True, true. Bobo Andy, you know.

6:19CTrue.

6:19AI know Prophet Andy. How is it, my Lord? Bless you, love God.

6:22CBlack and beautiful, my Lord.

6:24DI know, give thanks for all powers, all out, my Lord. I know, give thanks for winner of the earth, my Lord, you know.

6:29AWow, the guy got powers in your voice, my Lord. We love that, my Lord.

6:34CHeart to love God.

6:36DYeah, man, at this time, you know, so we do give thanks for this time. Black Truth Media, you know, world without truth.

6:44ASo give thanks for the 2 angels standing up so heartily and, you know, doing such Congress works at this time. Give thanks, my Lord.

6:53DMy Lord. And yes, um, like us telling the ones, telling people that we have, uh Eusi Kwayana is a historian, playwright, writer, uh, longtime activist. My lord, um, you said you went to school with his son. Was it in Ghana?

7:10AYeah, man, uh, that’s, that’s my, my close, close brother. That’s, uh, the, the right honorable brother, uh, Ross Kwame Alof Kwayana. You know, most know him as Alof. or Alafia, you know. And we went to school in, uh, ’96, or is it -- no, ’97, excuse me, in, uh, University of Ghana at Legon. You know, that’s when we were both young men, you know.

7:35DTrue, true. Yeah, man. So, um, we’re gonna have the elders speaking about Walter Rodney. For those who’s not familiar with Walter Rodney, he was a scholar. Some will call him like a revolutionary scholar warrior. He was a Breggin, went to school in, I believe it was Queens, and he was working in Jamaica at the University of West Indies. A lot of people know him for his books, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, also Grounding with the Brothers. Yes, you know, so even in Jamaica, because in 1968, en route to return to Jamaica, he was banned from Jamaica by Hugh Shearer. Hugh Shearer, um, being, uh, the Prime Minister of Jamaica at that time, was also one of the ones who was key in the sabotaging of Right Honourable Prince Emmanuel’s efforts, you know, within the agitation of repatriation.

8:30DYou know, I was, uh, uh, ambassador -- I think the United States Ambassador to Jamaica, Vince Delia Ray, said that Hugh Shearer was a well-dressed Negro who knew his place, you know. So even in 1968, Walter Rodney was banned from Jamaica. Even at that time, all black books, revolutionary books, black conscious books was banned in Jamaica in 1968 along with the Walter Rodney. So that sparked what they call the Walter Rodney Riots. You know what I mean? Starting from the University of West Indies, which, you know, spilled over into the streets. You know what I mean? A couple of people lost their lives, millions of dollars worth of damage.

9:11DYou know, so after Jamaica, he went to Tanzania, then eventually went back to his native birthplace or born place, which is Guyana. And it was there that he was murdered, you know, which is a conspiracy even behind that whole situation still, you know. So definitely have an informative night. We’re looking forward to the bridging. Honorable guests to even give us more of a fullness. of the bridge of Walter Rodney and his works, you know what I mean? Even Walter Rodney was linking -- I remember Walter Rodney was not only a professor, but he was heavily in the communities, in particular what they used to call the dunga, you know, back of wall, linking up with the Rastafari community.

9:58DHe was trying to link up the Rastafari and the Black Power movement in the Caribbean, particularly Jamaica, with the Black Power movement in America. You know, and that alone, you know, was stepping on the toes of the white world, you know. So we know CIA and all of them is involved with Walter Rodney, you know, and his assassination still, you know. So I don’t know. So I’m not sure if I, uh, I’m familiar with Walter Rodney, Bobo. I’m not sure how familiar you may be with Walter Rodney still, but, uh --

10:29CYeah, I’m familiar.

10:31AYeah, man. Um, Walter Rodney, you know, is one of our great Black historians whereby every, you know, Black son and daughter, you know, need to know about Walter Rodney. During the show, let’s really make it a teachment show. Ones that don’t know about Walter Rodney, it’s good you listening and take notes, but as well go and do your own research. Go and Google about the man. Go into your libraries. Go into your Black bookstores. Collect his books. They should be in every black man’s and black woman’s, um, trubly, or what they call library. Um, this is something that is, is vital for us as black people to know about such man, because the man paved a way for INI, whereby a lot of men look at the Emperor in a very spiritual aspect.

11:16AWell, this man, he, he looked at the Emperor in terms of, uh, his, his physical actions, what the man actually did in the world, you know, from building, um, you know, Addis Ababa Dam, you know, all the technology that he was dealing with, from, uh, you know, uh, building the, um, Ethiopian Airlines, you know. Rodney would point out all those things, you know, in, in terms of furthering our development, you know. It’s such a, an example of, um, Pan-African development. So, you know, my Lord and Empress, please, um, you know, if you have computers by you You know, just go and Google about the man so, you know, we can all be on the same page on this here program.

11:54AMy Lord and Empress.

11:56DTrue, true. And, uh, yes, you were speaking, um, about, um, the virgin, uh, Brother Alaf. I know his father and his mother, um, I believe was a Eusi Kwayana, and, um, I’m not sure if I know the Empress’ name, but I know they were doing a lot of works. Uh, somebody that educates.

12:18AOh my God, I can’t lie to you, you know, I am an African traditionalist and I would call them uncle or auntie or Mrs. or Mrs. Klyana, you know. And, um, of course, you know, when you come into one’s house under African tradition, you know, it’s only, uh, brother Alafia, me deal with, you know, or, or my sister there, Empress Yabo, or, uh, you know, uh You know, so, um, I never had so much, um, direct interaction, you know.

12:49CSure.

12:49ASo even I’m seeing this show as a great opportunity segue.

12:54DSure, sure.

12:55AAll I see them as is a great, you know, Black Ethiopian, you know, uh, Kemetan, you know, African, Ghanaian, Nigerian, you know, Congolese, you know, Ghanaian families. You know, yeah, so they were just great examples for me when I come to meet them at an early age. I really did see, um, you know, just a great prime example, you know.

13:19ESure.

13:21DAnd even during your early age, uh, you was exposed to quite a number of revolutionaries. I’m not sure if I’m exaggerating a little bit, but --

13:32AYou can never exaggerate, why not? I come up here in the Bay Area, California, where I I was like 10 years old, 11 years old, you know, meeting Black Panthers that had served with Honorable Comrade Huey P. Newton. You know, she’s not my blood relative, but same way, you know, one blood, same way, you know, we Africans is one people. But the Right Honorable Elaine Brown, who did run the Black Panthers when the Right Honorable Huey P. Newton was incarcerated. You know, um, I did know her. So a lot of elders within the Black Panther Party, um, are here in the Bay Area, and I would say, um, those were my teachers. Those ones gave me such, uh, militancy, you know. Those ones helped me even to motivate myself to move to Africa, you know, because I didn’t really see this place, you know, man getting shot out here left and right out here. So, you know, them elders kind of instilled that, that, uh, returning to Africa vibes, you know, from let’s say the 1980s. You know, true, true.

14:30DAnd you say you used to go back and forth as a youth?

14:33AYes, my Lord. Um, my caretaker, she -- they both, they never like to see me in the Bay Area here in the summertime because, um, the crime rate has escalated, you know. Um, here during the summertime, this is a real concentration camp, you know. Um, from the Black Panthers’ time, they said that they used to, um, let buns out like in boxes of guns, like a whole box just of guns, and they just go and put it like in a little place called Dogtown, which is West Oakland, like the hood of all hoods, you know. They would go put guns in like Hunters Point, which is in Frisco, another -- like, these ain’t just ghettos, these is double and triple ghettos. You just don’t even want to enter there if you ain’t got a ghetto pass, you know.

15:15CMm-hmm.

15:16ASo, um, they used to let guns up. This was in the ’60s, so you can imagine what they doing now. You know, it’s a real conspiracy against our black race here in California. We really got to move out of here, you know.

15:27CMm-hmm.

15:27ABut the thing is, what you see is our brothers and sisters in our communities, they come like quicksand, where they put their feet inside the quicksand and they can’t even see themselves getting out. It seems comfortable for them, you know. It’s like, yeah, it’s the way it’s all set up. So yeah, man, to answer your question though, my caretaker used to send me to Ghana, you know, every summer, about every summer, but whenever she could. could afford it, she would send it to Ghana, you know? Yeah, for my -- you know what, it made me who I am now. So give thanks to my caretaker, Honorable Empress Wanda. She in Ghana right now.

15:59DSure. And you mentioning the whole conspiracy, because the Black Panthers, following the Black Panthers, you know, after a lot of the key figures within the Black Panthers got locked up, a lot of the younger youths who was forming what they would call organization or street organizations. But the term brand or gang was given to them, you know what I mean? They was branded as gangs, but they was basically street organization as far as miniature versions of the Black Panthers, even the Bloods and the Crips. Because, uh, what was it, uh, one of them have a, uh, was it Crips community or Bloods? One of them is like supposed to be an acronym for some type of community development program that they was working on as youths. But Somewhere down the line, I guess, you know, look at infiltration, you know, some social engineering, you know, the Bloods and the Crips began warring against each other, you know what I mean? And then that’s how that whole gang, and like you said, boxes of guns and all of that was being dropped, carloads of guns and drugs was being dropped off in them communities, especially in the West Coast, that the crack cocaine epidemic even started out there and it worked its way east, you know?

17:08CTrue, true, true.

17:09AWell, even it started before that. What happened was it was the heroin epidemic. And what they said was that, um, you know, basically California’s right here. We got these shipping ports that’s connected to Asia. So they, they was bringing in, you know, Toyota, Nissan, all these Asian car companies had these big, you know, ocean liners. So they would, they would be filled with, with heroin, you know, and it would be brought over here, you know, right into Oakland, uh, Harbor. right into Richmond Harbor, you know. So the poison was being released into our community. But what happened was, if when you study about the Black Panthers, that happened just around the Black Panthers’ time, and it was done between the Italian Mafia, you know, and, um, the CIA.

17:51DRight.

17:51AAnd they was like, this Black Panther Party is getting out of control, so what could we do better than put drugs into the community, you know. So that was even before the the crack. It was the, the heroin that, that, that is what really got us here, you know.

18:05CYeah.

18:05AAnd then of course the crack followed, you know. Um, you was talking about, uh, the Crips and the Bloods. That’s more of a, um, LA epidemic, you know, a, a Southern California epidemic. I’m here in Northern California where, um, of course we did have the Crips and the Bloods, you know, but we had, um, you know, uh, Black Mafia Family, which is out of Oakland, you know, and, um, we had, uh, what’s really known about Oakland or the Bay Area is really the pimp game. You know, that movie called The Mack, um, was, was filmed right out here. You know, we had, um, a gangster out here named Felix Mitchell that when he was, um, when he was killed, um, they had him in a glass casket and the funeral procession was down a street called MacArthur, which is like a street that runs from like from one side of Oakland to the other side, you know. It was a glass -- I mean, glass casket, if you could imagine. It was all decked out and everything. Those kind of men came out of, um, you know, to bring down the, the Black Panther Party because the CIA and the FBI, they would go and empower these drug dealers.

19:08FMm-hmm.

19:08AYou know, they, they basically got them to where they were, you know. Um, and concerning, um, the Crips and the Bloods, a lot of those men, a lot of those men was former Black Panthers. Panthers, and because it, it, it, it’s like it got slowed down. Instead of going, shifting their energy into the Black Panthers, which was protecting the community, keeping the drugs out of the community, and keeping, uh, you know, basically how the Black Panthers was formed, it was in, um, excuse me, you have to do, uh, like, pardon me on the actual, um, street it was. I think it’s like 14th Street or something like that. If somebody want to call in and correct me, I appreciate it, love it. But what happened was they was riding down this street at excessive speed, so the young children was getting licked off the street. So the Black Panthers would direct traffic, you know.

19:53EMm-hmm.

19:54AAnd so this slowly grew where they was just protecting the areas. And so when they seen the gang, they would, you know, they would come in there with force. They would come in there with like 40 brothers with shotguns and say, yo, y’all going to stop all this thing, you know.

20:07CMm-hmm.

20:08ASo it was like a deterrent. It was a way to keep our communities clean. But then what happened is, I mentioned earlier, the conspiracy taking place with putting the drugs in our community, putting the guns in our community. It shifted, you know, and that’s where the Crips and the Bloods came about. As I mentioned, the Black Mafia Family came about, you know. Yeah, so, and now we have 2011, you know, where use is crazy out here, you know.

20:34CYeah.

20:34AYeah, it’s crazy out here. I mean, I could go into all the details. details, but everyone knows how a ghetto is. It’s universal, the same thing.

20:41DYeah, universal ghetto, you know.

20:44AAnd this is another reason why we got to get our people out of here, because, um, you know, the potential in our Black community is so great that we need this potential focused in one harnessed energy, you know, in, in one land, so that we can all be there together, you know, formulate plans, brainstorm, whatever it takes. But, um, you know, this This is another motivation for, you know, the black repatriation, you know. My God.

21:07DYeah, man, and we give thanks for King Emmanuel still. You see what Walter Rodney was trying to do? He was trying to link up, especially during the ’60s, because you remember the ’60s was a ripe era for revolution, Black Power movement going throughout the 4 winds. And Walter Rodney was trying to link up the Caribbean struggle with the black American struggle with the struggle in Africa, Southern America. You understand? And this is what the CIA and all of them has been trying to avoid, you know, the linking up of African people globally. Yeah, ever since Marcus Garvey, you understand? So we give thanks for King Emmanuel was able to, yeah, I mean, gather his sons and daughters from the 4 corners of the earth.

21:50DThat’s what I’m talking about. You see, the Congress is an international Congress, you know, so we give thanks, you know what I mean, for the Our leader, our shepherd, you know, gathering I and I throughout the 4 corners of the earth to even reach that better land, you know, because obviously down here it’s sinking sad, my Lord. It’s sinking sad, you know what I mean? And the youths don’t really have a positive light to look to, you know. So it’s really I and I really have to be that positive light that they can see now to even come out of that dark world of sin, you know.

22:19ANow we have to, we have to, my God. It’s gonna go on my life, you know, one step at a time. We all will move into Zion, you know.

22:26DTrue. That’s all. Um, even getting into the resume, because the Brethren Center resume is a fat resume still, I’m gonna kind of let ones -- let ones know of Honorable Elder Eusi Kwayana, his credentials and his work. He was born on the 4th of April, 1925, in Guyana. His activity experience was within education, arts, and even political life. Began teaching in 1940 up until 1952 in government-aided primary schools. Then he began teaching high school from like 1956 to 1976. He was also the leading rural supporter of Cheddi Jagan, pardon me, Cheddi Jagan in his first election to the Legislative Council in 1947. He was a founding member of the Political Affairs Committee and founder and first assistant general secretary of the People’s Progressive Party.

23:31DWhile a primary school teacher, he supported the sugar workers’ struggle after the Enmore shooting of 1948. Sent by the PPP as a delegate to the Congress of the Peoples for Peace in Vienna in 1952. In a British white paper suspending the 1953 constitution, I believe it’s the Guyanese constitution, uh, you see Kwayana was named one of the 5 ringleaders, you know, along with Martin Carter, Rory Westmoss, Bali Lakman Singh, and Adoja Singh. And they were detained without trial by the British governor in 1953 at the U.S. Air Base field. Co-founder with H.H. Nicholson of the African Society for Racial Equality in 1962. A founder of the African Society for Cultural Relations with Independent Africa in 1968.

24:31DThe 1968 cultural revolution encouraged local arts, crafts, foods, and respect for Guyanese cultures including revival of African music, especially drums, and popularizing adoption of African names. In 1965, he traveled to 9 African countries as envoy, part of an envoy with Mr. LFS Burnham, then Prime Minister, and made links with liberation movements, I believe, in Africa. Publications, he The first foreword to the first edition of Martin Carter’s Poem of Resistance. The Prog with a Daughter, a play produced. Christus Messiah, a play produced with original music. Promised Land was also a play. Scars of Bondage, a history, a first history of the African experience in Guyana. You See in Tycho, Guyana.

25:29DA Birth of Freedom, early study of the 1763 uprising in Berbice, Guyana. So the brethren, you know, as like I said, has a pretty extensive resume. Um, he also wrote the introduction, the preface to Rasta and Resistance by Horace Campbell, and quite a number of, number of works, you know. So we definitely give thanks, my Lord, for the link, you know.

25:53ATrue God.

25:55DYeah, and the brethren, now he was requesting that we call him because he said it would be easier if we call him. So, um, I don’t know if you want to call him on three-way. You just want us to try from here.

26:06AYeah, man. I don’t have a three-way still, so you know.

26:09DAll right. So we gonna work it out. So.

26:12CHmm.

26:13AYeah. You have it. You have everything on that that side, my darling.

26:16DTrue, true, true, true. Yeah. We have it right here.

26:19ANot sure. This thing.

26:20CYeah.

26:21DSo we gonna dial out and call our honorable guest, honorable elder. You see Kwame, it’s a dialogue. All right, yeah. So yes, Baba Kwame, um, you and the virgin, um, still keep the link?

26:43AYeah, yeah, we talk all the time. That’s my brother, you know. That’s, you know, yeah, that’s another thing, just to make a comment, you know. We, we as As black people, we as Bobo Santis, we gotta keep the links with each other, you know. Call up on your brother, see how he doing, you know. Show concern, you know.

27:02DTrue.

27:02AThat’s my original version there, you know. Yeah, man.

27:07DTrue, true. Yeah, man, we gotta bring him into Africa with us, you know.

27:10AI tell you, I tell you. Remember what the man say? He say, I am my brother’s keeper.

27:15DSo that’s me.

27:15AYeah. Rasta pride! Most natural, my Lord. You know, one people this, you know, no separation, you know.

27:26CTrue.

27:28ASo we just want to hail up all Bobo Shantis internationally, segue, doing, you know, a living sacrifice works, you know. Hail up all the angels, my Lord and Empress.

27:40DAll right, um, let me see something. It’s a call out. Okay, now try one more time.

27:50APlease, Black Truth Radio, exercise some little patience, you know. Everything will go on still, you know. You could just take this little moment to call in your brother, call in your sister, make them hear, say, you know, yeah, man, a real black professor is about to be on the scene for real.

28:10DTo give thanks. And even next Monday is, uh, the memorial. I believe it’s June 13th. Uh, next Monday will be actually the memorial of, uh, the transition of Walter Rodney, you know. So just let ones know, okay, we had to dial in so we know that we in effect know.

28:30GGreetings.

28:35CFinally, a message Center again for us, the Kuanas.

28:39AUh, it’s the answering machine, my Lord.

28:43CLeave your name and your number. Kindly repeat the number.

28:47AYeah, my Lord.

28:50GAfter the tone, please record your message. When you are finished, you can hang up or press pound for more options.

28:59DYeah, pardon, my Lord and Empress. We hung up, but then, uh, we also hung up on Brother Kwame. Prophet Kwame, please call in. I’m not sure if you’re within, uh, range to hear this.

29:12GTo leave a callback number, press 1. To send your message now, press 2. To replay, press 3. To add to your message, press 4. To erase and re-record, press 5.

29:31CHello.

29:32GTo leave a callback number, press 1. To send your message now, press 2. To replay, press 3. To add to your message, press 4. To erase and re-record, press 5.

29:43DNo, the wrong one.

29:46GTo leave a callback number, press 1. To send your message now, press 2. To replay, press 3. To add to your message, press 4. To erase and re-record, press 5.

30:08CGoodbye.

30:09DYes, part of my Lord and Empress, uh, technical difficulties on these on this side. Um, we also saw Prophet Kwame hand raised. Run, run some Night Congo order, then we gonna Come out of the lion’s den.

31:02BFor the Lamb of God is come, the Lamb of God. Eternal light God makes manifest. All thy people never prayed before, and they will have to pray this day. Oh Lord, oh Lord.

31:46CAdile Badanye.

31:47FAdile Badanye.

31:52BOh Lord, oh Lord.

31:55FAdile Badanye.

32:00BCome out of the lion’s den. For the wind blows. I know when the rain is like a flood.

32:21CAmen.

32:28BI’ll lift up a prayer before the Lord. So pray this prayer. Oh Lord, oh Lord, I’ll never die. I’ll never die. I’ll never die. Oh Lord, oh Lord, I’ll never die. Dile badanye. Dile badanye. Dile badanye. Oh Lord. Oh Lord. Dile badanye.

34:19DAll right, um, Prophet Kwame.

34:25AYeah, my Lord.

34:25DAll right, um, Baba Eusi. Okay, give thanks. All right, we give thanks for having you. Um, we’re live on the air now, so, um, if you could give thanks for having you, uh, on the program. You know, we was trying to get you on. Um, can you please, uh, just introduce yourself to ones who may not be familiar with you? Well, you can send your greetings to the people.

35:01AYeah, my dad, I can’t hear nothing.

35:04DOkay, hold on one second. We’re trying to work out the volume. Yeah, we’re experiencing some technical difficulties on this side, so just pardon.

35:21AAll Black Truth Radio listeners, please pardon us for this, uh, you know, minor interruption. Please don’t feel no way. Yeah.

35:28DYes, Baba Uzi, is it a way, uh, you can talk a little louder or turn up the microphone? Um, your face -- I think your telephone is a little bit low. All right.

35:45BCan you hear me now?

35:46DYes, I hear y’all. Prophet Kwame, you hearing better?

35:49AYeah, very low. Mr. Kwayana, bless you, love my God.

35:53CThat thing’s on YouTube.

35:56AYeah, the phone is still very low. Me, I can’t hear the I please. Um, yeah, I don’t know what we can do, but you know, the world wants to hear. The world wants to hear the royal elder, so please. We can’t hear you, my Lord.

36:12DOkay, uh, what we can probably try to do is call him back through the Skype. Um, so Baba, um, Mr. Eusi Kwayana, do you mind if we call you right back? Okay, we’ll call you right back, brother.

36:26CThanks.

36:30AYes, my Lord and Prince, I was listening out there in the airwaves, you know, the, the, the, the Black Teachman is about to go on, you know, so Don’t run away, you know. I know the game’s all on right now. Don’t worry about the Heat, the Mavericks, that’s going to be there still, you know. Don’t worry about what’s going on out in the streets right now, that’s going to be there still. Ain’t nothing going, going away, you know. But this, this education is about to go on this evening. Please, you know, pay some extra attention.

36:57DIt’s Blog Talk, so one should be, you know, they familiar with Blog Talk. Blog Talk, we know we always have some kind of Technical difficulties with blog talk. Well, we give thanks same way, you know, for the forum. We’re going to call them. We’re going to dial out to Skype and try it that way.

37:16CTrue, true.

37:17DSo the call has been established.

37:28AMore time we need a sponsorship for Bobo Santi Radio in Africa. You know, say 24/7, Naya Bingy, Daniel number one band in all the land, you know, with the 7 priests on the golden altar of Melchizedek, you know.

37:42DYes, number -- all right, the number is on there. We just got to try to bring it back on. Mr. Kwayana, do you hear us? Okay, I believe, uh He should be Mr. Kwayana. Okay, it looks like, um, I know, please, just do some more reasoning.

38:11AI’m gonna call you right forward. I’m gonna try and make a call offline, see what’s happening. I’m gonna call forward in 5 minutes’ time.

38:17DAll right, all right. Yes, sir. We’ll run some bingo meanwhile.

38:20ALet’s, let’s, let’s hit it up, guys.

40:43CGreetings. Finally, message center again for us, Diana. Please leave a message after the beep. Please leave your name and your number. Kindly repeat the number 20 times.

40:57EGo ahead.

41:42CAll right, blessed.

41:45DWe see Baba. Yeah, with the third one. And then also, blessed love. We’re back on the air. Uh, we see if we go bring in our co-host as well. Um, Honorable Prophet Kwame, Mr. Kwayana. Okay, his call has dropped.

42:05COkay.

42:08DYeah. Yes, Honorable Prophet.

42:10AYes, God. Yes, my God. Just some little technical difficulties. Yeah, Black Truth Radio, don’t, don’t feel no way. The elder is about to call, and I did Just speak to my dad and he’s about to call in, you know. So just get out your, your pen and your notebooks and get ready for taking class, you know.

42:28DOh, we see, we see a couple of numbers. I’m not sure if it’s him, but it’s not the number that we have. I’m not -- is he going to call from a different number or the same number?

42:35AUm, it’s -- wait, hold on here. It should be from the 619 area code, my dad.

42:40DOkay, we saw the 619, but, uh, the hand is down. Um, You can scroll down and see if you see his contacts on there.

42:48AYeah, um, just take the calls in and, you know.

42:53DOkay, uh, Baba Kwayana? Mr. Kwayana? That’s it, Mr. Kwayana? We see his number, uh, we unmuted him. Um, okay, on the top now. Mr. Kwayana, bless and love.

43:14CThank you.

43:16DAll right, brother.

43:18COne love.

43:19DOne love. All right, yes, uh, excuse us for the technical difficulties. Um, give thanks for having you on the program. Surely an honor.

43:30CUh, no, I am honored to be invited.

43:34DOkay. And, um, yes, we was letting ones know, um, Your long tenure within the field of activism, even as a start, I would like to know what drove you as a young man to get involved in the struggle for the people?

43:50COh, because I was simply one of the people and feeling everything that was around me, you know, and that began in the 1940s. Before many of you could have been born.

44:09DYes.

44:12CIt was just after the Second World War that I became directly involved in that total struggle.

44:26DOkay.

44:29CI would say from about 1947.

44:35BOkay.

44:36DAnd, uh, was Marcus Garvey an influence on you during your earlier life?

44:41CNot at that point.

44:42DNot at that point.

44:44CUm, when Marcus Garvey came to Guyana, I was about 11 years old.

44:49AWow.

44:50CAnd I heard the big people talking about it and singing, you know. Keep cool, you fool, and hear what Garvey says.

45:03AI love that.

45:04CI had another indirect influence because some of the people that I worked with and honored afterwards were -- I found out were Garveyites. Every time I go to a part of the country and I speak and then go to the back of the hall Somebody will say, you know, I’m a Garveyite. And that happened in several parts of Guyana.

45:32AYeah.

45:34CChief among them were the Jordanites. The Jordanites. The Jordanites were, um, an African Ethiopian type of religion. They wore long white robes, beards, and staffs, and they kept Sabbath.

45:56AHmm.

45:57CAnd they were very foremost in the opposition to Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia. In those days, they were very, very strong. I was a child then in 1935, as I said. But their tradition went on, and I used to go to the street corners and listen to them wherever they are. Wherever dirt knights talking, I have to be there and listen to them. There were men and women.

46:29EHmm, sure.

46:31CAnd one would be preaching the word, and the sister sitting at the table with the Bible, and you call on her and say, sister, give me a song there. And if he read out a piece of scripture, he would expound it, you know.

46:49EHmm.

46:50CHe was a preacher. There were several of them. It was a very strong movement. They were so strong that during the Second World War, Moses and Aaron, their elders, were Interned. They were interned by the British governor for the duration of the war. They did not risk having them on the streets, and that’s a piece of history that is not known, you know, that is -- nobody says that.

47:26AYeah.

47:27CBut I know, I remember when they were released. The governor was a man named Gordon Lethem. And he announced their release. He said some venerable-looking men with beards came to him about this problem, and in a little while they were released back to the flock.

47:53DSo were they actually -- were the Jordanians actually from Africa, or were they like people from Ghana?

48:02CThey were, all of us were, then you know, they were African descendants.

48:07DOkay.

48:08CIn Guyana, their foreparents had been through the enslavement and the apprenticeship and everything. And they just cut themselves off from the mainstream, the white churches.

48:23DSimilar to the Rastafarian movement.

48:30CJordan had a vision and he got up and he began to preach.

48:34DOkay, so that was their leader?

48:37CYes.

48:38DOkay.

48:39CNathaniel Jordan, I think.

48:40DOkay.

48:42AMr. Kwayana, would you say that was the beginning of a black conscious movement in Guyana, or how would you say the black conscious movement started? It was not the first.

48:53DIt wasn’t the first.

48:54AIf you could give us a brief history of it. of the Guyanese conscious black movement, how it started?

48:59CWell, with me, when I was about 3 or 4, a Congolese woman who lived in the sugar estate where I was born and was growing up, we called her Gang Gang. She looked at me. I used to play near to her. She used to sit in the sun on a bench, and as I played near to her, she called me and said, “Pick me, Congo a high nation.” That was my first lesson.

49:40BWow!

49:40CPick me, Congo a high nation. I didn’t understand what she was telling me this for.

49:49DCongo High Nation.

49:49CYes, Dandan. Yes, Dandan.

49:51AI never explained it before to anybody.

49:54CSpeak me Congo High Nation. And it took me years to understand she was telling me about African civilization. But by then, you know, she was old and she didn’t feel like talking a lot. Wiry, dark woman. with a head tie. So that is the first shake-up I got, I would say.

50:21DHmm.

50:22CAnd, um, the next big thing that I remember -- my people belonged to the Christian church like everybody else. The next big thing I remember was the Ethiopian war and the response of the Jordanites and workers. Workers in Guyana as well as in Trinidad, as you know, had a lot of Garveyite influence, and they were in the backdam, and they were the ones pushing strikes. And in the chance that they had -- I’ve written this in something that I wrote I interviewed some of these people later on, you know, a man named Daniel Pollard. I want to call his name because when I was a little child -- we have gone to Buxton now -- when I was, say, about 14 and so on, I knew -- they called him Dan Cunshin. His real name was Daniel Pollard. He had been to jail. And he had the reputation of being a bad man.

51:34GUh-huh.

51:36CI didn’t know what his badness was about. The man had gone there for riot. They had imprisoned him from Lusignan because he made a white overseer dance behind a bumba band from the backdam in the estate. Right out to the front, to where the manager and the office were. And the name of that overseer was Lenny Hares. And you know, he was prosecuted. I think he spent 6 months in jail. And I did not -- we didn’t know. We liked him. He was a nice man. He used to talk to us and But we didn’t know why he was this bad man, as they called him. So that is how things came, you know, very, in a very vague and indirect way.

52:33DSo how influential was Marcus Garvey movement in Guyana, the UNIA itself?

52:42CIt was influential among All classes. It had a lot of middle-class support, but as I said, I was 11 when he came there. I never knew the movement as such. We had in our house, my, my mother, they had pictures with black angels, and there was a man named E.A. Van Rossum. A bearded man. He was a poet. He used to write his poetry, print it, and go around and sell house to house.

53:22GHmm.

53:24CAnd I remember he used to read it and then sell it. Maybe people would buy it. I remember, O Africa, my motherland, downtrodden though thou art, yet thou shalt rise by God’s command to play again thy part.

53:41AYou know?

53:41CHmm. I remember hearing him read that. And, um, those were the early stirrings. But, um, the Honorable Marcus Garvey went there in 1936, I think. I have a friend who studied the whole of Garvey in Guyana. He’s a professor on the East Coast. I can give you his name at some point. He’s a young man, much younger than I am. He tracked down a lot of the organization, you know. He was doing research along with Professor Robert Hill in Los Angeles.

54:26ASure.

54:28CWho is a big Garvey student, you know.

54:30FYes, yes.

54:32CSo he was attached to him at that time and did that work, but he will be able to talk about that in his own right.

54:40AHmm.

54:41CIn the, in the ’50s and the ’40s and ’50s and right down to the ’70s, there was one friendly society in Victoria on the east coast of the Marara. Carrying the name UNIA up to then. In 1948, which is a year of of note in Guyana because they shot five and more sugar workers Indians, and the whole country was against it. The whole country.

55:26Bprotested.

55:27CAnd I remember a woman who used to write poetry about the beauty of black people. Her name was Caroline Bourne. B-O-U-R-N-E. I mention these names because they don’t get written about, you know.

55:45EHmm.

55:46CYet they are pioneers, but nobody remembers them.

55:53DSure.

55:53CYou know, unless you have a PhD or you’re some professor or something, you’re quickly erased from the records, you know.

56:02DYeah.

56:04CI think deliberate pains insert these people. Carlisle Boone was a great inspiration. She used to read a poem, I Love My Dark Color. And she went on from there. I don’t remember all of it. She was a little businesswoman. She had a stall in the market. And, um, stirring -- so this is how I am seeing the remnants of Garveyism as a young person.

56:32DYeah.

56:33CI was never in any of the movements or anything. Many, many years later on, I attached myself to a Rastafari group called, um, was it -- is it Third World? Was it? The Twelve Tribes.

56:51DThe Twelve Tribes.

56:55CThey had a headquarters at Victoria, and when I finished teaching on Sunday evenings, I would take a bus, a minibus, and go right up there and go through their whole service with them and then come back to Buckland And that was my routine on Sunday nights.

57:12DApproximately, uh, what year was that?

57:17CThat was in the ’70s and ’80s.

57:20DOkay, okay, sure.

57:23CThank you. Early ’80s.

57:25DAnd when did you get involved with the work in People’s Alliance? Was it in the early ’70s?

57:30CFrom the start.

57:31DOkay, from the start.

57:32CFrom the beginning. You see, I was a founder of the I was one of the founders of the People’s Progressive Party, which was the united national anti-colonial movement founded in the year 1950.

57:50DMm-hmm.

57:51CCheddi Jagan, L.F.S. Burnham, Martin Carter, Rory Wessner, J.P. Latchman Singh, others. Janet Jagan, of course, his wife from Chicago. And I was there. So that was founded in 1950, and then things began to happen politically.

58:19AWhat sort of accomplishments did the I’s get from that time, from the 1950s? You know, going through ’51, ’52, ’53, what sort of works were the Ayatollah doing in those times then?

58:34CThat was not cultural work, that was political work direct. Went around the whole country organizing people and getting people united under the banner of one political party of the working people. And that was well done. Mr. LFS Burnham was not there to begin with. He came just as we were forming the party, and he was made chairman. He was a Guyana scholar and a lawyer. Cheddi Jagan was a dentist, studied in the United States of America. So these are people returning back home, you know, with profession, you know.

59:24EYes.

59:25CAnd that is what the masses wanted on their side. I was very active, but I was a teacher. I was nothing. I was known --

59:36AOh, my Lord, you are a great something, my Lord, from that time, you know.

59:40CI was nothing. I had no -- I never went to school abroad in my life. But they had gone abroad and studied. I had to go through the primary school system. My father died when I was 13, so I didn’t have any what they call backings, and I’m not sorry about it. I was able to steep myself in the society to which I belong thoroughly.

60:07DSo --

60:09AYou conquer through the tough times.

60:14DSo how did, um, if you mind me asking, how did the work with the political, the People’s Progressive Party, spill over into the Working People’s Alliance? And can you give us a history?

60:23CIt’s a long story. We have many miles, many bridges to cross before we get there.

60:31APlease, Mr. Klein, make we cross those bridges in the brief amount of time that we have, you know. Please educate us. We are open ears, you know.

60:44BHehehe.

60:44CThe first bridge was the 1953 general election, the first one -- no, the second one to be held after the Second World War, but the one in which they introduced the ministerial system, colonial ministerial system, and of course adult suffrage. It was only in 1953 that everyone at 21 was able to vote. And so it was a landmark election. So our aim was to unite the people first of all and then go for independence. And I wanted us to go for independence as a united people because we are apart from Africa, the native people, the indigenous people, like the Indians, the so-called North American Native Americans. They are called Amerindians, but they are the indigenous people. They’re there. All that time they were entirely outside of politics. They used to have the Europeans use them as they wanted and then cast them aside and left them to the missionaries. They used to have them hunting runaway slaves and paying bounties.

62:23AThat is right.

62:26DMm-hmm.

62:26CAnd after we self-emancipated ourselves, our foreparents, they cast the Amerindians aside in reservations. They had no more use for them. And they, up to now, they live in what we call the interior of the country. They do not abound in any coastal villages, which is where the population of Guyana still is, on the coast, stretching along a coastline of 270 miles. They are not to be found there except in little pockets.

63:08AHmm.

63:10CAnd that’s their destiny. And then, so in 1953, we, we had some arguments before the election. I have to say that in 1952 I was sent abroad for the first time as a delegate representing this People’s Progressive Party at a conference in Europe. The Congress of the Peoples for Peace in Vienna in 1952. It began in December 1952 and went into January. Now this is the first time I’m leaving the country and I’m sent to the -- I’m sent to the, um, as a delegate to that peace conference. Through London for the first time and had to represent -- well, I was the only one from Guyana there, and the other people from the Caribbean were from Cuba.

64:24CThis was before Castro, and there were a lot of Latin Americans. So I was in a Latin American delegation of 17. Hmm. Well, sometime before that, sometime after that, we argued in the party, and I -- my position was, I said, look here, I knew the country well, you know. I, I, I was not a professional. I was a grassroots person. I lived in the middle of a poor section of the village. I never lived in an exclusive housing area or anything like that. All around me was poverty. All we had was a little, you know, schooling from the primary school. I never went to high school.

65:25CNever went to high school, but I was able to open a high school in 1966. Right stuff, all right. Bless the eye.

65:36AGlorify, glorify, royal elder.

65:40CAnother story, but I was arguing, let us not fight to win these elections because Yes. I understood the manipulation of the colonizers and how they did here and there, you know. I paid a lot of attention to the Indian independence movement in 1947. In the village where I live, There was something called the Indian National Congress set up by the Indians, and I joined it. I was an -- they called me an associate member, but it was supporting Gandhi and Nehru and these people fighting for independence for India. So I was part of that.

66:36BHmm.

66:38CThe People’s Progressive Party had not yet been formed. the one I was telling you about. So I said, look, I know this country, the people are not fully united. Cheddi Jagan had won an election in 1947 as an independent with the support of a lot of us younger people. He is Indian. We supported him. He won. He was a Hindu. He did a magnificent job from 1947 to 1953 representing all the people. He was one of the first representatives to give equal representation to all parts of Guyana. I said, you know, what we want is about 8 people like that in there, and that will for the next term, 5 years, that can unite the country. But right now the country is united, and but not, not with a lot of trusting one another, a lot of suspicion. You may know the kind of thing I’m talking about.

67:49AMm-hmm.

67:50COne racial group suspicious of the other, competing. The British had us in competition.

68:00GYeah.

68:01CNo, we need to have a strong opposition fighting these people for another so many years, and then we can talk about winning. But we can win now. I told him, I said, look, we can win right now, but I think we should not. Well, the vote went against me. 2 of us voted for that motion, Martin Carter, the poet, And I, and the whole majority said, no, if we’re fighting, we’re fighting to win. Which is the, you know, it’s generally the general thing, but you ought to look ahead sometimes. That’s true. And we did win. 6 of us became ministers. I became a minister of communications and works. And in -- after 133 days, the government was suspended. The constitution was suspended, taken away. The ministers were dismissed. Excuse me. They said we were trying to make Guyana into a communist state subservient to Moscow.

69:14AHmm.

69:16CAnd that was it. They landed the troops from England, the Black Watch, the Welsh Fusiliers, and others, and swarmed the country with troops expecting some riot which never took place until years after. I was among those who were first detained by the British. Martin Carter, Joda Singh, Bali Lajman Singh, Rory Westmuth, and I, along with a brother named Sidney Coutin and Sahadio, we were picked up in the market in a sugar estate. We were giving out some handbills, invited into the police station, and that was it.

70:09DHmm.

70:09CWe didn’t see our homes until about nearly 4 months after.

70:16GReally?

70:18CHmm. Nothing, no offense. They had nothing to charge us with.

70:22GHmm.

70:23CBut when they suspended the Constitution, they had this emergency law under which the governor was free to detain anybody.

70:31EHmm.

70:33CI remember what my detention order Red light. So they took us up, put us in a police station. That is Saturday afternoon, Saturday night, telling us nothing. But the radio was on and we hear it on the BBC Saturday night that we had been held.

70:57AHmm.

70:59CThis time the 2 front leaders, Jagan and Burnham, are traveling. Protesting against the suspension of the constitution. At that time, they had no independent African country. They went to Egypt, they went to India, and they went to England protesting and so on. So we were put up for safekeeping. I don’t know if your audience is interested because we can’t finish this. story tonight.

71:31DTrue, true.

71:32CThe detention order read like this. They woke me up about half past 3 one Monday morning from the lockup, marched me down a corridor of the New Amsterdam Police Station, and there was the officer sitting at his desk, a white police officer. And you read the order to me from the governor, and it’s not me alone, it’s 5 of us are going to get this order. Whereas I am satisfied with respect to -- my name was Sidney King then.

72:16BHmm.

72:21CThat’s in order. That, and whereas I’m satisfied with respect to Sidney King, and by virtue of the powers vested in me by Her Majesty’s Government, that in order to prevent him acting in a manner prejudicial To public safety and order, he should be detained. I, Sir Alfred Savage, hereby order and direct that the said so-and-so be detained at a place in the colony which I shall from time to time appoint. Well, you’re gone, you know.

73:15AFor 4 months?

73:15CYou’re in custody, Derek. Hmm.

73:18ASerious.

73:20CAnd they, they traveled with us about 120 miles to the American base at Atkinson Field Airport. My, my left wrist was handcuffed to a police sergeant sitting next to me. In the back seat of something like a Jeep. And that time there was --

73:51Aexcuse me, Mr. Kwan -- at that time there, uh, was when the Eyes was, um, locked up for that 4 months, um, were ones in the community in Guyana, um, aware of it? What were they doing in terms of taking action, um, during that time when they, they know that the Eyes was in They were doing a lot, and that is why we weren’t kept longer.

74:15CBut there was an emergency law. No more than 5 persons could gather together. No public meeting, no demonstration, no procession other than a funeral procession was allowed.

74:31AAnd this was all given from the The British colonialists. This was the ones that did that.

74:38DYeah, yeah, yeah. Before independence.

74:40AThem early oppressors.

74:42CGreat democratic nation, man. They never exported democracy.

74:48DSo if you mind me asking, when did you meet Walter Rodney? Was it, um --

74:55CIs it Walter Rodney? First, in about 1964, he was in Tanzania teaching.

75:10DOkay.

75:11CAnd he used to come home at holiday time. And at that time we had an organization called African Society for Cultural Relations with Independent Africa. We called it African Society. Korea. It was in touch with a lot of North American Africans like Mamadou Lumumba and my wife, who I got to know after -- from 1968, and a whole set of others. But we -- the first one of the things we did There was a chap somewhere in the United States called Ahmed Evans. He was an activist, and we read in the papers that he was sentenced to death by an all-white jury. So we could not take it. We went and picketed the U.S. Embassy, and that is how some people here heard of us, because of that.

76:17EHmm.

76:19CAnd the links began. And the links began. So Walter Rodney used to come home to see his mother, and he would always come to Austria to see us and look around and, you know. And then the next time I met him was in 1971, 1970. Year-end 1970, Mr. Burnham, who was the Prime Minister, invited me to go on his delegation to the Lusaka Non-Aligned Conference in Zambia.

77:00GWow.

77:01CThe Non-Aligned Conference in Lusaka. I was not a government official. I was chairman of the Ghana Marketing Corporation. Because they had asked me to go there. I was teaching, you know, we had our own secondary school which I said we opened in Buxton. I was very happy teaching, but they asked me to go there, so I used to spend a lot of time there and continue my teaching. It’s not a big job because I was afraid of big jobs. It was just, uh, you’re supposed to preside on the board of the Ghana Marketing Corporation, but I asked for an office there so that I could get the organization shaken up. It wanted a lot of shaking up, and we did manage along with the workers, and so we had a lot of worker participation, and we did manage to shake up the GMC. So I went to this Lusaka conference, and on the way there I passed through Cayenne. They had some trouble with me because everybody else was traveling first class and I told them, no way, I’m not traveling first class. I said, look, the whole plane for me is first class, so I am traveling economy. I had to fight for the right to travel economy, you know, brother. Wow.

78:25AAnd it’s cheaper. It’s cheaper.

78:31CI passed through Cayenne. I’d never seen Cayenne. I went to Cayenne. I wanted to see what the Africans were there like under French rule. It’s quite an experience, but that’s another whole story again. So when we got -- after the Lusaka Conference was finished, there was a state visit to Tanzania. headed at the time by Emolimu Nyerere, Julius Nyerere. And Walter Rodney was teaching there at the time. So when they went to the state dinner, I took the chance of visiting Walter Rodney at his home, and he had some -- invited some students in to meet me, and we had some You know, a little gathering, and that was it. That’s the second time I met him.

79:28DAnd this is before --

79:32CHmm?

79:32DOh, so this is before, um, the forming of the Working People’s Alliance too, right?

79:37COh yes, oh yes. He is not home yet.

79:39DOkay, yes, yes.

79:41CNot home yet. That is 1970. We went back home. I, I, I broke with the WPA. government of the day, Sir Burnham’s government. I started to see corruption taking place, you know, and I spoke out against it, and they, they were very hostile. I took some of the ministers before the tribunal for corruption. Well, this is something bad to do. I’m not supposed to do that. Because we are all Africans, I am supposed to, you know, shut up and let the corruption overtake the nation. Not this one. I wasn’t doing that.

80:32FHmm.

80:34CAnd I opposed it. I was very angry because I put myself at his disposal voluntarily. I did not ask for a job. They asked me to be a minister. I said, no, I don’t want to be a minister.

80:50DHmm.

80:52CAnd I did whatever I could to help the movement and the government. And then now you are, you know, encouraging corrupt people, and when I complain, you tell me it’s not true. And I say, I’m finished with that.

81:10AThat is actually that.

81:18CThere are a lot of gaps in this story. They are not intentional. It’s just from the questions you ask, you know.

81:25FTrue, very true.

81:28CI can answer them direct.

81:29DTrue, true.

81:33AYeah, Mr. Kleiner, we have lots of questions, but same way, you know, whatever the I would like to reason, same way, because, you know, a freedom of speech, you know, same way, you know, any works the I would like to get out there, any sound the I would like to get out there, because this radio program is heard worldwide by the I.

81:51CSee, what I did not get to say was that in 1955, The original party that had won this election in 1953 split. It split over who should be the leader at that point.

82:12AHmm.

82:15CChatham had been the leader because he pioneered this struggle. Vernon and some others felt that he should be the leader. The argument was that he was smarter and more diplomatic and all of that. He was trained in England and Jagannath was trained in the USA. But I felt Jagannath was the right person because he hadn’t done anything. You can’t just break up a movement like that by rivalry. I have no Patience with this fight for leadership, you know.

82:55DSure.

82:56CI, I, I -- it disgusts me. Gets me very disgusted. So Mr. Burnham went off and started the PNC, People’s National Congress. I remained with Jagan for a long time, and then we began to argue whether the country should join West Indian Federation, whether the PPP -- majority of people now in the PPP are Indian, even, even at that time, all the time, because they, they had the largest single numbers in the country.

83:39AMm-hmm.

83:40CI broke with them on the question of federation. Because Jagan said he could not support Federation because Indians were against it. The party had been for Federation, but when the time came to take the step, C.L.R. James came there lecturing and all of that, you know. But when the time came to take the step, C.L.R. James C.L.R. James didn’t come until some years later, but he had gone home working with Eric Williams. I don’t know if you know that. He was editing the newspaper for Prime Minister Eric Williams and the People’s National Movement, the PNM of Trinidad. C.L.R. James was editing The Nation. And taking off a shirt here.

84:49GHmm.

84:52CHe used to come to Guyana to cover cricket, a great cricketer. And so we met and he invited me to Trinidad. I spent 2 weeks with him in 1959. So I broke with the PPP not on any leadership struggle, but on the question of federation, to join. I was in favor of joining the West Indian Federation, the Caribbean Federation, the English-speaking countries. That is what was on the map. You can mention And by that time, because of the split, Jagan said he is not joining. 90% of the Indians were against it. But I became an independent on my own. There was an election in 1957, and now this party that was united in 1953 fought as 2 factions, as 2 parties in 1957 after the emergency was lifted. A more backward constitution, but they fought it, and the PPP won against the PNC. I fought as an independent. The people on East Coast said you got to fight. I said I said, “Look, I’m not going in this election.” He said, “No, you ought to go.” I went and I proposed federation. I made federation my platform because we believed in the unity of the Caribbean nation as a first step to anything. Because each of the countries in the Caribbean is a mini.

86:50Gstate.

86:50CPut all of us together, we can hardly fill a city in the United States.

86:55BYeah.

86:55CSo that was our position, a few of us. We lost that election. Then sometimes later on, because the issue had become racial, I joined the PNC. And this is a very interesting part. I joined Mr. Burns’ party now, and I said if Jagan could say -- this is what he wrote, and I’d like it -- I challenge anyone to deny it. I have the document in a Congress paper in 1956. He wrote, the Indians of British Guyana feeling as they do a sense of national oppression, are almost 100% against federation. Now, he said, well, if you are a Marxist and you can talk like that, I will organize Africans, I will organize black people. And it’s for that reason that I joined the PNC, no other reason.

88:10AHmm.

88:12CWhich I was just starting. I never fought under Mr. Burnham’s, um, for a seat under the Burnham Party. He never went into the government. I was just there as a, um, as a whip, you know. My whole point was to make sure that corruption did not develop.

88:35ASure.

88:37CI had gone to Africa. I forgot to tell you. Oh no, that’s later. It’s about the same time, 1964. When the 1964 elections came up, I supported them. I was not a candidate. I refused to be a candidate. Mr. Burnham wanted to to the United Nations to groom me to become the representative of Diana at the United Nations.

89:06AOkay.

89:07CI said, I said, I have no use for that. I am teaching. I am going no place like that. My work is at home. You think they’re interested? me.

89:24GMm-hmm.

89:25CSo he said, well, will you go to Africa to introduce me to the African leaders? I said, I’ll do that. So it was December holidays, you know, and he had to get a visa for me to pass through the United States to go to Africa. At the United Nations, I addressed the African group. The African group were very pro-Jagan because Jagan had all the talk, you know, all the big talk in his mouth and so on, you know, very radical speech, pro-Soviet and all of that. And most of the Africans were like that, but they don’t understand what was happening in Guyana. They heard that Burnham had formed a coalition with a party headed by a Portuguese man named DeGarr, a businessman, and by joining with DeGarr, they got a majority of the seats and were able to form the government.

90:37CThe British government did that deliberately Change the voting system to proportional representation instead of first past the post. First past the post is the one in which you get -- you fight in constituencies and who comes first wins. It’s like a race. Nobody else can win. On proportional representation, the total vote can be shared out proportionately so that who gets -- if you get 51% and 2 other parties can get 59%, or 49%, then the 51% would form a government.

91:39GHmm.

91:41CIt, um, the previous system was very unjust to African constituencies. When you work it out, this is what used to be happening. The PPP, which had the bulk of Indian support, used to be able to win a seat for about every 6,000 votes. The party that represented the Africans needed something like 19,000 to 20,000 votes to win a seat because of how the constituencies were organized. So That proportional representation corrected that. It didn’t do anything better more than that. It corrected that representation flaw due to geography and how people are spread out and so on. I went to Africa on his behalf, introduced him to all the African leaders. I went to 9 African countries in that visit at his expense. I never bought a ticket to travel out of here.

93:02AWow, what a blessing.

93:03CI couldn’t. So I went on the understanding, and my base was in Ghana because Nkuna had sent people to Guyana. And some of them had met me. There was a man from my village working with him named Ras Makonnen, T.R. Makonnen. He was a Bokstonian and a Guyanese. And Nkrumah had sent a whole team of them to try and make peace between Jagan and Burnham.

93:34AHmm.

93:36CBut it failed. But some of them and I became very, very close. There was a Ghanaian who came, Nana Kobina Nketiah, and I learned a lot from him about Akan religion and Akan culture. We talked a lot, and I met him when I went to Ghana again.

94:02APlease tell us some of your experiences in Ghana, my Lord, in them earlier times.

94:11CGhana was a leading country at the time. I understand it is getting there again. Nkrumah was very strong, very strong Pan-Africanist. He wanted Africa to unite. He wanted a continental government All the countries coming together to have a union government for trade, education, defense, everything. He wrote a very important book, Africa Must Unite.

94:53AThat’s right.

94:55COn the night of Ghana’s independence, I was not there. Dr. Jagan and Mr. Burnham were both invited in 1957, March 6th, I think. They went there. I was not there, but I know that on that night, Nkrumah said the independence of Ghana is meaningless unless it is tied to the total liberation and unity of Africa.

95:30AThat’s, uh, 1957, huh?

95:34C1957, Independence Night. That is his message. He said Ghana is free forever.

95:41ALove to hear that speech, you know, up to this day.

95:47DTrue. And, uh, I pray they, um, open up the lines as well. Just, uh, being that we have a couple hands raised, um, if anyone listening, if you want to ask a question, you can call in [number removed]. Call-in number is [number removed], then push the number 1.

96:14AAll right. All angels, please remember, you know, we, we are African tradition, you know, so please call with a great respect for the elder.

96:23DMy Lord.

96:23CDon’t impose respect on anybody. I mean, you have to deserve it.

96:31ASo, my Lord, please, Elder, you deserve it greatly. You know, we are dealing with African tradition, you know. It’s not an imposing, it’s something that’s in our blood. From where we are born, we have to remember that, that great tradition. Respect thy elder, you know.

96:45CRespect to you too.

96:48DCaller from the four one five area code. Bless the love you on the air, four one five.

96:54AMarcus, I. Marcus, yeah. Yeah.

96:59CAll right.

97:02EGive thanks, Father, said and done. Give thanks, Father, for Antoine. Give thanks for the elders.

97:07CUnder respect, huh? I pray to God.

97:13ANo, I’m in San Francisco.

97:14EYes. Yeah, the 415 is up here.

97:19AYeah, go through my line.

97:24EHello, out of respect, um, I was calling for some clarification on, um, Jagan and Burnham. Was there any outside influence involved in the separation?

97:35CPlenty. That’s the whole point. That’s the whole point. But I feel that this --

97:44EGo ahead.

97:46CI feel they should have known better. You see, I was coming to the point when in 1961, a very learned brother, my elder, a scientist, natural scientist, and very, very learned came back home, H.H. Nicholson, and we got together with some young people and studied the situation, started lecturing, and we put forward a plan saying that -- you remember they had a thing here about Africans wanting a homeland, wanting a part of the country?

98:30DYes.

98:32CLike the Republic of New Africa and so on.

98:34DHmm.

98:35CThen he put forward a similar thing, and I said, we can’t go there right away. We have to try first to unite the country. So what we put out was to solve the racial problem -- it was getting very sharp and very tight -- by joint premiership. You have 2 prime ministers from the leading races, majority races, and you have a civil rights body for minorities like Portuguese and Chinese and so on, Amerindian. So that is what we put forward. I insisted on a joint premiership because I know then it could have worked. And when the election was finished and the results came out, One had 42-point-something percent and the other had 40-point-something percent.

99:29EWow.

99:31CSo I said, the people voted for that. The people wanted both of you to come together and run the country. Anyway, this became a great thing. They began to call me a racist because they talk as if I invented the race problem. I did not. This problem was there. We all know who exploited it, you know. I was labeled that because we said joint premiership, and if this thing can’t work, avoid bloodshed, divide the country, right? Give the Indians a part and a part for 3 nations, whoever wants to be mingling together.

100:19EOkay, um, go ahead, sir.

100:25CI’m listening.

100:26ENo, my question was, um, the choosing of the flag colors, whose choice was that? Um, Boram or Jagan?

100:35CI, I don’t deal with flag. I can’t remember which flag was that. The party flag or the nation’s flag?

100:44ENo, the golden arrowhead.

100:47CThe golden arrowhead? That was in Burnham’s time.

100:50EOkay.

100:51CI think they had a competition and somebody put up that, you know.

100:57EOkay. Um, did Burnham ever meet his Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie?

101:05CYes. Yes. Okay. Well, I was there.

101:11DTrue.

101:12CI met, I met them. I met His Imperial Majesty the same time. But when I --

101:19AHoly Emmanuel, I never know you made the Emperor.

101:24CYes, I met the Emperor.

101:26AWhat a great revelation.

101:30CGive them one.

101:32EYeah.

101:32CBlessed to meet His Imperial Majesty.

101:36ATell us how it was to meet the Emperor.

101:42CCan you touch upon that a little bit? I went to Ethiopia twice. Once as this kind of forerunner, you know, when he asked me to go to Africa. Ethiopia was one of the places I went to and I spoke to the Mr. Mr. Richard Talbot, who was a Guyanese and was in charge of the African publications for His Imperial Majesty.

102:13AHmm.

102:15CRichard Talbot. And I, I did not see His Imperial Majesty then. I didn’t even ask to because I talked to the foreign minister and people like that, you know. And I spoke to the theological college, students at the theological college, and the abuna of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. I met him.

102:45AHow were you received by the abuna and by such wonderful people?

102:50COh, beautiful, wonderful. Very, very friendly and courteous. He talked with me a long time.

103:01AGood times.

103:01DAnd your second trip to Ethiopia?

103:03CThe second time was when I went after the Lusaka delegation, after the Lusaka conference. I was talking about it earlier. We went to places like Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, and where else? Uganda and Tanzania. I think that was it. You went to those African countries doing pure Pan-African work? Yes.

103:43DAnd then can you ask me a question?

103:45CIn Lusaka, where Dr. Kaunda was the president at the time. And I interviewed all of the liberation groups that were based in Lusaka on behalf of Mr. Burnham. I interviewed all of them and found out exactly what they needed. This is how he was able afterwards to give so much a year to the liberation struggle. You get it?

104:17ESo --

104:20CBecause I found out that they were getting arms from the East and so on, but their big problem was when the arms landed in one country, how to get them from there to Mozambique. They had no money to do that. Hmm.

104:41DCan you explain to us or describe to us your first impression of His Majesty?

104:47CWell, it’s the first time and the only time I ever met a monarch, you know. You can understand what a monarch he was. Very, very well Composed. Very, very well composed. Small in size, very gracious. They had a big rumor that if you were to talk to him, you’d have to go on the floor and bend down several times. Total nonsense.

105:23AHmm.

105:24CTotal nonsense. It was all over the place. And he was very influential on the continent.

105:34DSure.

105:36CEverybody liked to get him on this. He used to settle a lot of disputes. He was a kind of elder figure, you know.

105:47ASure.

105:49CWhen, when 2 countries were not getting on, they were trying to get his imperial majesty So although he did not have a big radical program, he also supported the liberation struggle there. Ghana, um, Ethiopia was the only country that had an arms factory. You follow?

106:16DOkay.

106:18CThey had arms factory.

106:21DYeah.

106:21CAnd they gave total support to the liberation struggle from there. And that is where they built the head office of the Organization of African Unity in Addis Ababa.

106:32AThat’s right.

106:35DYeah, yeah.

106:38EOkay, I have one more question. It’s a little bit about, uh, picking an individual. Kofi, the freedom fighter.

106:45CYeah.

106:45ECan you speak a Coffee and your influence on him, or him on you, if you have any.

106:52CIf I have any what?

106:54ENo, the influence on coffee to you, you learn about him, or the first time you got the knowledge of him, or the --

107:04CI was the first of our generation to write about coffee. Which was the bicentenary of the uprising of 1763, an economist named Lloyd Best from Trinidad was in Guyana. He was working in Javan’s office as a UN representative, you know, UN specialist, and he invited me to write an article on the Burmese uprising of 1763, and this is how I came to do it.

107:45AOkay.

107:47CSo I was the first person in our time to write about Kossy. So the Kossy uprising in 1763 took place even before Haiti, but it did not last as Haiti lasted. It took place in 1763 and Haiti was in 1794. 1804, but the part of Guyana closest to Suriname, the most eastern part of Guyana, has the name Berbice. Guyana is divided coming from the east to the west into Berbice, Demerara, and Essequibo. So we are talking about Berbice, the one to the east. closest to Suriname. And that is where the enslaved people on Plantation Magdalenenburg on the Canyo River began their uprising on the 23rd of February, 1763. And in quick time, they had the Dutch running.

108:53AHmm.

108:56CIt spread like wildfire. The leaders were Kofi It’s really Kofi, K-O-F-I, Kofi. Ghana people.

109:05EGhana.

109:06CYes, but they, they, um, they corrupted it into coffee, you know. There’s another name, Akabre, and another name, Accra, and another name, Atta.

109:22ALike Professor Atta Mills. Nkrumah, the current president of Ghana.

109:27CAccra, Kofi, and Akabre. And they had, they had some wonderful teamwork. And the, the Burmese river runs through the middle of Burmese, and they were able to liberate the whole of the eastern part of that river, and the Dutch escaped to the capital in the mouth of the river somewhere. Wait, let me see what’s the name of that place. It’s not Crab Island. Anyway, Kofi made an offer by letter, got one of the white women they captured to write in the language and tell Van Hoogenheim, who was the governor, look here, we don’t want any more shedding of blood. You take that part and let us keep this part. And he signed himself governor of Barbies.

110:29DWow.

110:33CHe said, we can divide it like that. You stay over there and we stay over here. And then he wrote the words, but we shall not be slaves again. But we shall not be slaves again.

110:45DSure.

110:48CSo it was -- David?

110:49BNo, a question.

110:53EAny books in writing circulating about that?

110:56CScholars came and wrote books about it afterwards. Um, I have a copy of the article I wrote. It was printed in a thing called the New World Independence Issue. I had written it for the newspaper, and then when independence came, they asked me to revise it and print it. George Lamming and Yan Karoo edited that Guyana Independence Issue.

111:30AHmm.

111:31CI have one copy of that. There’s an article also by Walter Rodney called Masses in Action. It has an article by Fitzpatrick, 40 Years of Politics in Ireland. It has an article by Lamming. It has a lot of people, I think, you know, a lot of people.

111:51DOkay, true.

111:53CBut I don’t know where you can get it.

111:55DAll right, um, Any more questions?

112:03ENo, Freedom, just if you’re listening, either to give thanks for what I said, you know, and, you know, glorify the work that’s been done and all the knowledge I’ve been learning about. And, you know, I give thanks. Any book you’d recommend besides The Masters in Action, and I could pick up right now, I can buy at Barnes& Noble or even on the amazon.com?

112:24CThat’s not the book. Walter Rodney’s book is It’s called History of the Guyanese Working People. That’s a book on Guyana, History of the Guyanese Working People.

112:36DOkay.

112:37C1981, he wrote it. It was published in 1981, rather, after he passed away, his killing, his assassination, 1981, by Johns Hopkins Press. And you know about How Europe Underdeveloped Africa? That was published by Howard University. How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. His first book was Groundings with My Brothers in Jamaica.

113:06DHmm.

113:07CGroundings with My Brothers. That was the Jamaica experience when he met the Rastafari and used to meet them frequently and exchange opinions and talk about African history and civilization and so on. That’s why they banned him from Jamaica. He went to the Black African Black Writers Conference in Canada, and before he could go back, they deemed him a prohibited immigrant.

113:38EWow.

113:40CAnd I tell you, Kingston blew up because of that. People got so mad. They burned buses and also other things, you know, to make a complaint. So those are some books. I have a number of books too, but I don’t know. I can send you this by email, but History of the Chinese Working People. There’s also Walter Rodney website.

114:12AOkay.

114:12CIf you Google Walter Rodney Foundation, if you Google Walter Rodney Foundation, you’ll get their website. They have some good stuff there. That is run by his wife and children in Atlanta, Dr. Patricia Rodney.

114:31AHow is the Rodney family, my Lord, at this present date? How is all his offspring?

114:41CRight. Oh, he has a son called Shaka who is in Jamaica. He runs a business restoring documents, you know, rescuing documents and old books and so on, bringing them up. I don’t know too much about it, but I stayed with him a little when I was passing through. Then he has 2 daughters in Atlanta. One is Asha, she’s a lawyer. One is Kanini, she’s a medical doctor. His wife was a professor at Morehouse. She did her PhD after --

115:22EThat’s true.

115:28CThat’s my wife offering me some water.

115:31ANot so, not so.

115:33DLet me just make a quick announcement. Oh, pardon. Um, for those who’s listening online, be sure to call in, uh, before 11 o’clock, before the hour. We have about 4 minutes to go. Call in number [number removed], [number removed], to continue listening. Yes, sir.

115:53CYes, and he has one doctor. His wife is was a professor at Morehouse in charge of public health. She did a PhD after he passed away. She came there and studied, continued her studies. She did a PhD and she’s an authority on public health. She did a lot of -- you’ll see it on the website. They honored her the other day when she retired from Morehouse.

116:15EGood thing.

116:16AIs she all right? How’s her health? Everything good with her?

116:20CYeah, they seem quite well. I’m in touch with them. Oh, they gave me an honor last year.

116:28DTSL.

116:29CThey have an annual Rodney session on his birthday, March 23rd every year. And last year my granddaughter represented me, a little girl. She took the thing and made a speech.

116:51BWow!

116:52AOh my goodness!

116:53CSerious? That’s Kofi’s daughter or son.

116:57ACome on!

116:58COh!

117:00AIs that Princess? Oh, make I. Yeah, Princess Tigist or?

117:05CHuh?

117:07AIs Princess Tigist?

117:09CTigist. Yeah. The granddaughter. The granddaughter Ethiopian name. We have four of them, Kofi and. 4 granddaughters, 4 children.

117:19ASo it was one of these printers that give you the, the, this thing? Yes, the honoree. Oh wow, it’s nice.

117:28CSure.

117:30DAll right, so let me, uh, jump into the calls one more. I see, uh, a 206 number. I’m trying to bring you on the air.

117:40C206.

117:47D206, bless the love. I just listening. 347-258, bless it.

118:00CHello.

118:01DHello.

118:04FJust thanks.

118:06DHello.

118:10FI know about Anwar Mugabe.

118:14DSay it again, Baba.

118:18FYes, I know about Anwar Mugabe.

118:20DOh, the President Mugabe.

118:26CYeah, he, he -- well, I may -- you and I may not agree on that. He, he was a good friend of Walter Rodney. They were young men together. They were in touch and so on. But Zimbabwe, you know, a lot of things are going on there. I have never been there, and I prefer to leave it at that. I do not approve of everything going on in Zimbabwe.

119:07FBut what about Mugabe? How is he functioning as a freedom fighter?

119:13CI have never been there. There are people who have been there who can talk with more authority. What I was saying is that I am concerned over a number of things going on there. I know people who lived there, went there to teach, set up a branch of a university there. to push the country on, and it is their witness that I am relying on. I’m not relying on BBC or anybody for that information.

119:45EOkay.

119:47CBut since I have not been there myself, I don’t feel qualified to pronounce on it except to say that there are a lot of things I don’t agree with. I don’t agree with foreign countries bullying Zimbabwe either.

120:05FOkay.

120:07CAnd the sanctions and all of that, I don’t agree with. But I don’t agree with the reports that that leader himself -- and I have the experience from Mr. Burnham -- is bullying his own people. And I say that as someone who has not been there, relying on people that I trust.

120:29FIs it a political front where they’re being bullied, or what is it?

120:40CI beg your pardon?

120:42FIs it a political front where they’re being bullied, or what?

120:47CThey have their own agenda, you know. European countries always have their own agenda. They’re not interested in anybody’s freedom.

120:59DThat’s right.

121:00CBut when the leader of the country may have blundered in some ways to give them an opening, then, you know, they exploit it. The same thing is happening in Guyana.

121:19BHmm.

121:20CIt happened in the times I was talking about, and it continued to happen. It’s happening now. Ghana is no bed of roses. They have a man there, Dr. -- Mr. Jack Deo, who is president, and he is a dictator. No question of it.

121:47FHmm.

121:47CUh, this is where they and Walter Rodney broke, you know, went on different roads, because Walter Rodney was for empowerment of the people in all respects and had no patience at all with this higher-up kind of government. And that is where most of them have gone. Parted company with the masses that brought them to power and operating against them.

122:27AHmm.

122:30CTheir problem, they don’t have an easy problem, but If they would only put themselves out of the picture a little and say, give everyone a share in the government, things would be much easier. This fighting over who is, who is, um, you know, who is the top, who is the best, and who is the baddest, and, and who is right to rule. I have no patience with it, but I am peculiar in that respect. I don’t ask anybody to accept that.

123:08AA real honesty, that, Mr. Kwayana. Mr. Kwayana, I would love to ask you a question. This is referring to the book Rasta and Resistance, which I did get in 1989, and it’s been a great book since that time. Just the one aspect I got from the book is that they were saying about Walter Rodney is what Walter Rodney would speak about concerning the Emperor was more not on his spiritual aspect but more on his accomplishments and, you know, what the Emperor did, you know, for Ethiopia, what the Emperor did for Africa. Could you please give us maybe a closer view with that, you know? being you didn’t know the man and being that you two were brothers, you know?

123:56CYeah, I can’t do that offhand. I haven’t, um, I haven’t looked at that book for some years. I wrote the introduction to that book, Rastan Resistance, by Horace Campbell, and it came out first. Horace Campbell knows Walter Rodney closer than I do at that period. I knew Walter Rodney from the time he came back very, very closely.

124:23EMhm.

124:24CKnew him before when he visited at holiday time. He would drop in and, you know, keep in touch. But then he came back in ’74. We worked very, very closely together, and I think he would, he would, he would take the position that You know, Haile Selassie, His Imperial Majesty, was trying to carry out reforms in Ethiopia.

124:50AMost natural.

124:54CHe introduced the first elections, but he is not a person to rush things. He was a gradualist, you know. He preferred the slow, slow but sure way.

125:12DNo one to --

125:13CHe’s a man who had to fight wars, you know. I honor him for his resistance to the Italian invaders. His diplomacy, his resistance to Italian invaders, the way he represented Ethiopia abroad when they invited him to several European countries. They told him, they admitted that Ethiopia had Christian communities long before Europe.

125:44DHmm.

125:48CAnd he was able to represent that continent in a very dignified manner. When he went to the League of Nations, you know, he spoke with authority at the League of Nations. And he told them, I’m looking for help from the West, and if help did not -- does not come, the West will perish.

126:09AThat’s right.

126:10CAnd it did. He had them on the run.

126:14AStrike now and now.

126:16DEthiopian flame shall burn in Europe.

126:18CYeah.

126:20DSure. And we have a caller we bring on the line as well. Um, pardon my Lord, my Lord. Um, bring on 954 area code. Bless the love.

126:30CThat’s Florida.

126:33DCaller from the 954-494. All right, probably just listening.

126:46CAll right, that is what I can say offhand, you know. So I can’t pay a better tribute than to say that all the liberation movements of Africa in the decolonization period up to the last relied on Ethiopia and His Imperial Majesty for staunch support, including Mandela and all of them.

127:13DYeah, Mandela was given an Ethiopian passport and an Ethiopian name too when he was on the run. Uh, can you give -- pardon, uh, can you give us the history, uh, of some of the works that you and Walter Rodney was going, um, working with, and even throughout the ’70s, some of your works and activities with, uh, WPA?

127:37CYes, and you know what I did with Walter’s time was that as an older person, I put myself at the disposal of a younger political generation. That’s how I saw it. That’s how I see what I was doing, you know.

127:56DSure.

127:58CHe had, he had very, very, very popular support from the masses of people of all races, all races of Guyana looked to Walter Rodney. If you hear anybody saying anything different, They don’t know what they’re talking about.

128:19DAh.

128:19CI am a witness from the land, from there, and I see a lot of people -- they had a set of people who set out to question whether Walter Rodney left any legacy. They say he left no legacy. The moment he died, the movement crumbled. That is nonsense. That is total nonsense. Mother Rodney was assassinated in 1980. He was not assassinated because he was failing. You understand?

128:55DTrue.

128:56CHe was assassinated because he was succeeding.

128:59ATrue.

129:00CHe was succeeding in bringing the whole country together. under this new force, and they felt they couldn’t allow it.

129:12AAh.

129:13CAnd after 1980, that party went on, and it was the most vibrant party in the country until they introduced fair and free elections in 1992. And things for various reasons. People try to regain the racial territory that they were in danger of losing. Losing. Very complex situation, you know. A lot of positives and negatives, as people would say, in that. Hmm.

129:54DSo was it? So what the work --

129:58CWhat we did together was groundings with the people in small groups, in yards, bottom houses. People come from all directions and discuss the political situation of the country. of the very community, of the village, and move on. Then there were big rallies. The biggest rallies since 1953 were those headed by Walter Rodney.

130:37GRight.

130:39CRallies at which people of all races stood up side by side and agreed on what was This is no imagination. This is a witness from, from, from the movement talking. And I have been here since 1947, and I know what I’m talking about. I know the various phases --

131:08AThanks for such testimony.

131:09CI know the various phases of the movement, and I have no interest in I have a great interest in history and clarifying things. I don’t have to make up things, you know. So if you make up something today, it’s exposed tomorrow. Where are you? You lose your credibility. All I have is a little credibility. I don’t have money, you know. I’m not going to risk that.

131:33DWell, you yourself was a witness, so you can testify.

131:38CYeah, that’s what I do.

131:41DSo, um, was the Working People Alliance a political party or more of a grassroots type of organization?

131:46CIt began as a grassroots organization and it became a political party in 19 -- it began in 1974, the same year that Walter -- it began before Walter returned, and then he came back and he looked around, he joined it, and then after 5 years, 1979, It became a political party under his guidance. He saw that the time was right.

132:13DOkay. So who was the main opposition against the movement itself? And why was he assassinated?

132:21CThe government of the day.

132:23DOkay.

132:26CThe government of the day was the day because it is the day we were trying to remove.

132:32AWhat about the CIA though, Mailag? What was the CIA’s influence in such revolution?

132:38CAlways one thing that has to come out eventually by people from inside. I have heard not much about that. You know, they cover up the thing and then they declassify documents after a time.

132:55ASure.

132:58Cclassified that period yet.

132:59ACome on, them go get their judgment still, you know. They can’t hide the truth, you know.

133:04CYes, and they, they lie. They do lie. They lied on me. When I went to that 1952 conference in Europe and came back, I was stripped to the bone and searched.

133:24AJust this?

133:26CBy the colonial government in Guyana. Stripped me of all my clothes and searched.

133:32DSo what were they searching for?

133:34CThat’s what I asked them.

133:36AI think I know the question.

133:39CI said, were you searching for arms? Bombs? They said, no, there are more dangerous things.

133:45EHuh?

133:46CThey said there are more dangerous things than arms. So I brought back some pictures, you see. I met a chap in Vienna at the conference from America, a white man, short white man named Stepson Kennedy. S-T-E-P-S-O-N K-E-N-N-E-D, like Stepson Kennedy.

134:08AAnd part of the Kennedy family?

134:10CI have no idea. So if you look up that name, You will find it. I Googled it once. He was from somewhere in -- was selling pictures of lynchings in the United States of America, and I bought about a dozen of them.

134:30ASerious?

134:32CHuh?

134:33ASerious?

134:35CYes, I bought about a dozen of them to take home and let people see the paradise of the United States of America. States of America. You know, they seized everyone. And the white people branded me a racist. They said I was trying to foment hatred against white people. That’s why I took them home.

134:55AHmm.

134:56CAnd they say that I brought back Russian money. I think they say $3,000 or $20,000. It’s in my passport up to now. I brought back $300, which was payment for my ticket, because when the people sent my ticket, it never came, and Jagannath had to buy the ticket from his pocket. So I went to the conference at a place called the Financial Bureau, you know, and I applied for my -- presented my ticket and asked them to pay it back.

135:32BI see.

135:34CAnd that’s what I took home. The Americans add some zeros, man.

135:41ASo you were brought up on charges at the airport with these things, or they just confiscated it?

135:48CHmm? Confiscated what?

135:51AThey just took that money there, or they, they brought you up on charges, or --

135:56CThey did not take the money. They took the pictures.

136:01AYeah.

136:02CThe lynching pictures, you see? Pictures showing people being lynched in the United States.

136:08DYeah.

136:09CAnd sent it to England to, to, to, to, to, um, you know, just to wash them out on me because I’m trying to stir up something.

136:20ADid they try to arrest you then, or they let you go?

136:29COh, when I came back?

136:30AYeah, did they arrest you at the airport because of that?

136:32CAt the airport? No, they let me go. I had to go home.

136:35AOkay, okay.

136:37CThey didn’t keep me. They kept me about an hour or something like that, you know, searching everything. And then I was free to go.

136:44AJust some intimidation tactics.

136:47CYeah. Well, they were afraid. They wanted to see what I had brought. By that time I was well known, you know, in the country, and they knew where I stood, so they were searching for evidence of something.

137:06DSo when did Guyana get its independence?

137:13C1966.

137:16DOkay, ’66.

137:17C26th of May, 1966.

137:20DThat was under Jagan?

137:22CThat was under Burnham.

137:25DBurnham, okay. So was Burnham -- Burnham was a socialist?

137:29CYeah, that’s what he claimed to be. He nationalized 80% of the country’s economic assets, you know. Nationalized bauxite and sugar. and several other things. Hmm. But that is, that is, nationalization is not socialism. Mm-hmm. But that’s another matter. Okay.

137:58DSo, as far as I’m --

138:00CIt’s a kind of state capitalism.

138:03DPardon me?

138:05CI said they had a kind of state capitalism.

138:08DOh, okay, okay.

138:09CThat’s what it was.

138:11DBut was he involved in any of the revolutionary movements in Africa?

138:14CVery much.

138:16DOkay, well, as far as sending troops there?

138:19CI told you, I mentioned that.

138:21DYes, you mentioned.

138:22CYou’re sending $100,000 a year.

138:25AWow.

138:27CTo the liberation committee in Tanzania. I wouldn’t say on whose advice because that’s neither here nor there, but I told you I interviewed all the movements and found out what their needs were. True.

138:41DWas, uh, the Mau Mau part of one of the movements you interviewed?

138:44CNo, they were not there at the time.

138:47DAt the time, okay, okay.

138:48CIt was independent by that time.

138:51DOkay, okay. All right.

138:55CWhen you were detained, remember I told you we were detained? 5 of us were detained at the American base?

139:01AYes, yes.

139:03CWe had a hunger strike. We had a hunger strike, and part of the hunger strike was against the use of heavy bombers in Kenya against the Mau Mau.

139:17ATrue.

139:18CIt would come on the radio.

139:20AThe hunger strike go on how long, my lad?

139:24CIt was 1960 -- uh, 1953, ’54. Do you remember? Uh, 1954.

139:33ASo how many days did you do that for? Just 4 days. 4 days, okay.

139:44C4 days, yeah. I’ve had several of them.

139:49DSo were they successful?

139:59CWell, how can I say? I don’t know. Little things change, people get angry and so on. I can’t say. That’s not the point. The point is to register spiritual resentment, you know.

140:16DTrue, true.

140:18CResentment of the spirit and the flesh as well. True, true.

140:24AYes, Mr. Kwayana, the Eye has had experience through the whole revolutionary times in Guyana, you know, really on a whole Pan-African level internationally. The Eye has mentioned you did do works in Europe, throughout 9 countries in Africa, and as well in Guyana. Please, if there’s any other word, sound, and power you would like to expand upon, you know, Any other, any other sound you would love to give, please? Because, you know, the floor is open. We have to hear what you have to say, you know. Mr. Guyana, you’re asking me? Yeah, I was saying if you would like to expound on anything more, you know, concerning on your times, uh, from, from those earlier times in Guyana to going to 9 different countries in Africa as well as Europe. You’ve done international work.

141:20CSpeaking to this audience, well, Europe is a -- I had one visit in Europe, one political visit in 1952, as I said. I spent 6 weeks. After that, they invited me to Hungary where I spent 6 weeks. But what I wanted to put in talking to United States audiences In 1970, this organization, ASPRIA, held a conference, a Pan-African seminar in Georgetown, Guyana. We invited Pan-Africanists and Black revolutionary activists, and we got representation from USA, from the Caribbean, from South Africa present there, and it went very well. And after that, we set up a Pan-African Secretariat in Guyana, and it was headed by Brother Zulili from North California, and Mama Dula Mumba in You know, you all know Baba down there?

142:37AThe name sounds familiar, for real.

142:41CYeah, Baba, his brother. They were, um, Baba, um, Mamadou Lumumba and Shango. They were expelled in January 1973 from the country, close to Austria. And we had, you know, we had become an independent force. We had begun to attack the corruption of the ruling government, the PNC at the time, and so on. So the Pan-African Secretariat operated from Georgetown, covering the whole of the Western Hemisphere, the Caribbean, the USA, China. Cayenne, and wherever we could reach. And we were preparing for the 6th Pan-African Conference. We had something called the Caribbean Liberation Steering Committee, and I was secretary of that. It had representatives from Trinidad like Daga and Cambloon. It had Tim Hector from Jamaica, from Antigua and others, Christian from Grenada, Maurice Bishop, St. Lucia, Barbados itself, Bobby Clark. And eventually we were banned from the con. We could not attend it. conference because Mr. Burnham got the Tanzania government to declare that non-governmental organizations were not welcome.

144:30BHmm.

144:34CAnd that was, that was very much against us, you know. I would not have gone, but I was hoping that other persons who had never gone would be able to go. They thought I was going, but I had no intention of going.

144:48DHmm.

144:51AHmm.

144:51DSo, um, can you give --

144:52CMy wife was responsible for working on the United States side of it, the delegations from the United States of America. They came in strong numbers.

145:02DHmm. So, um, can you give us a history of Maurice Bishop?

145:12CNo, no, not a history. I, you know, part, just a part, part history. These are young people, you know. I didn’t grow up with them. You see what I mean?

145:24DSure, sure.

145:26CAnd so I, when people ask me about Walter Rodney and Maurice Bishop and so on, I always warn them that these are not my guru-mahtas. These people were about, let me see. Walter Rodney was born in 1942. I was born in 1925.

145:45ACome on, you’re that senior.

145:49CA decade and a half, you know.

145:51DSure, sure.

145:52CBut I pretend to know them from their youth. Yeah. But I can talk somewhat about them.

146:03DJoe, Joe.

146:03CWhat’s the time here, Joe?

146:06DPardon me?

146:09APardon?

146:10CWhat time is it? What o’clock is it now?

146:12DUh, your side, I think it’s 8:26.

146:16AYeah, yeah, we have, uh, how many minutes we have more left, Myla? We have another almost, uh, 30, 34 more minutes left in the show, isn’t it?

146:27CAbout 4 minutes. I thought it was --

146:32ANo, the show ends, the show ends at 9 o’clock, um, Mr. Klyanas. Um, yeah, if, uh, you could also, uh, something I get to understand is that, um, you know, having, uh, the name Kofi, uh, even it seems like there’s a heavy, uh, influence of, um, you know, Ghanaian culture in Guyana. Um, how would you say this comes about?

146:57CSo one of the groups brought there as, um, enslaved, you know.

147:05ATrue.

147:06CAkan people and so on.

147:08AThe Akan people, okay.

147:10CYeah, there are a lot of them. We have people from -- definitely we have interviewed, my wife interviewed a lot of people there. My wife is from Georgia. We met in Guyana about 1968, and she has interviewed a lot of Guyanese people. And we have found in Guyana people who were talking Yoruba. She wears African dress all the time. She taught -- she was a teacher in Nigeria. We went to a village and as soon as this woman saw the woman, greeted her in Yoruba. Do you understand?

147:51AMm-hmm.

147:53CSo you had all those pockets and they have a Yoruba culture on the west bank of the Demerara, if nowhere else, across the Demerara River. Then the Ghanaian element is very clear, very, very, um, Some of the names are still there. We still have one or two people named Kwamina.

148:14AYes. What about, um, what, okay, uh, that’s, that’s within the naming and, um, some, some of the remembrance of, of the culture. What about with, um, is there any, uh, similar, uh, in fabric, uh, the fabrics that are made in the Yoruba culture, is there fabrics like that in, um, in Guyana or the drums? Are they made in similarity?

148:37CYeah, well, when we had the organization Aspler, when Aspler was active, it encouraged a lot of that. We don’t make it there. I don’t know where it came from, but people began to wear it all over the place, the fabric. What we did, we had something called the Cultural Revolution. In 1968, and we appealed to people to take African names. We had a book of African names. We had several copies. We had them in various parts of the country, and people knew where to go to get an African name to name their child. And we would appear and do the naming ceremonies. You know, we had Someone who specializes in the naming ceremonies and the wedding ceremonies. I was married by -- I was married under Yoruba tradition.

149:36DWow.

149:38CWith someone from Nigeria. I didn’t marry in any church. We went to the register and got it legalized, you know.

149:47ATrue.

149:48CBut the ceremony was Yoruba, sheer Yoruba.

149:50ADid you have to pay a bribery?

149:53FThe bride?

149:54CPay what?

149:56ADid you have to pay a bribe?

149:57CNo, we didn’t have that aspect of it. A bride price. No, because her parents were not there anyhow.

150:05AYes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I asked that because I had to do that when I was in Ghana.

150:12CYou were in Ghana, yes, you were in Ghana.

150:14AYeah, I had to pay a bribe when I was in Ghana that time.

150:21CWe have a food in Ghana named congee.

150:24AHey!

150:25CIn Ghana they call it kenkey.

150:27ANutshell, me know it.

150:29CYes.

150:30AThat’s my favorite food, kenkey, pepper, and tilapia fish. I’m good.

150:36FYeah.

150:38CIn Ghana it is made with sugar.

150:39GHey!

150:41CBecause we are a producing country and it’s wrapped up in banana leaf or plantain leaf.

150:46AOh.

150:47CAnd fried in little cakes, you know.

150:48AI’ll go to Guyana just to get some of that.

150:52CHuh?

150:53AI’ll go to Guyana just to get some of that.

150:56COh yes, you’ve got to arrange it. It’s not everywhere. It became very popular during Astraea’s time.

151:05DOkay.

151:06CWe made it just as how Indians would have roti and curry. At all our festivals, you have to have conky.

151:14EConky.

151:15CConky will be hallmark. So you could have anything else, but conky is a symbolizer. Symbolizer. So people changing names all over the country. The head of the Jordanites, Elder Klein, at that time, Elder Klein was our chaplain. from the Jordanites in Austria, and he used to come with us to naming ceremonies. We’d go to a village and name about 40 people who wanted to change their names in an open-air ceremony, you see. Did a lot of that.

151:55DAre the Jordanians still in existence now, or are they -- the Jordanites?

152:04CNot -- they’re very, very, very much in decline right now. Unfortunately, I haven’t been there since 2002, so I can’t speak firsthand, but, uh, it’s declined.

152:18DYou have an idea when the movement started?

152:20C1920.

152:22DOkay. Do you know the circumstances surrounding I spoke of that before. No, as far as actually the actual origin of the movement itself.

152:34CYou know, it came from the Caribbean. A man named Das, D-A-S, came to Guyana with this story and met Jordan, who had a mission, who had a vision. He was fasting and he had a vision. Mr. Das baptized him and left, and then he carried on from there.

153:00FOkay.

153:02CEstablished it in every village, had a little Jordanite temple. It might be a house, you know. So the important was a place called Agricola.

153:16DAgricola.

153:17CThere they had a real temple, a concrete Building. Okay, and that was the headquarters.

153:28DAll right, and now, pardon, now we have a caller from the 267 area code. Uh, bring on the air caller from the 267. Blessed love.

153:38FBlessed love, my Lord.

153:39DBlessed love, honor, ever.

153:42FAll right, it’s time for life and the life we got. Give thanks for the royal host and the royal guest, my lord.

153:53DMy lord.

153:55COne love.

153:55FYes, sir.

153:57DYes, far right.

153:59COne love.

154:00AAll right.

154:01FOne love. Professor, may I have a question for you? In Trinidad, they celebrate the 31st of May as Indian Arrival Day, and I would like to know in your history when it was that they -- or did any slave ships reach Guyana? Or how did the slaves then reach -- Because I get to understand Trinidad, I don’t believe it had any slave ship actually came there. So I’d like you to give me a clearance on that. Like to say, if you have your lineage from Guyana and you want us Trace your lineage back to Africa. Come my father from Guyana.

154:47CThere is there is somebody who specializes in that. You know, he does genealogy, and people are tracing their lineage. I don’t know how they do it. I never did it, but people are doing that in the end.

155:04GYeah.

155:04FTo your knowledge. To your knowledge, did any slave ships come to Guyana?

155:09COh yes, yes, but I can’t -- I, I never saw the date of the first one or anything like that. But slave ships came to Guyana, plenty. Guyana was populated in that way by Africans from slave ships.

155:26FOkay.

155:27CThis is, this is no question. From about the 1620s It’s time to arrive.

155:34AAll right, all right.

155:37CProbably 1620 itself. My wife and I wrote a book called Scars of Bondage. S-C-A-R-S, like, like a scratch in the skin. Scars of Bondage. To show what black people went through in Guyana from, from the slave times. I have that book on sale.

156:00FOkay, okay. Yeah, it’s just that I want to say, because as I say, I don’t, I don’t see anywhere where I ain’t get no history on no slave ship coming to Trinidad. So the slaves was, was sent there from other islands, you know.

156:15CI, I, um, I can’t -- you are from Trinidad?

156:23FYeah, my boy in Trinidad.

156:25CWell, you all are very good research people because every carnival you all do a lot of research.

156:32FProfessor, professor, sorry, sorry. Here, put it over there. So I just want people to know we all come from the same ship. So that, that carnival thing and all them spin-off is what we’re trying to eradicate and get to the core. I never heard of it. We want people come over on the same ship and we want to pick up them connection nowadays so that we can put down the Trinidad yes and Africa no. And we want to pick up Africa because we don’t want to fly the colonial flags there, you know.

157:13BThat’s right.

157:14FWe want that solidarity. that kind of knowledge going out in the airwaves so that the youth then throughout the islands can see this solidarity and not no Guyanese and no Trinidadian and no Barbadian because it’s one of the most ridiculous things ever come out.

157:31CI want to -- I, I will have to look up that thing about Trinidad and the slave ship and I can let you know.

157:40FYes, I’ll try.

157:41CPlease judge and know what I find out. Sure.

157:46FProfessor, yeah, so we want them knowledge all public out now.

157:51CI’m not a professor, you know.

157:53FWell, right now you’re a professor in the black world, you know, man with knowledge, you know. We don’t need the white world to give you no honors. In the black world, you is a professor. I’m listening to you all night.

158:06CYou’re a professor, my Lord.

158:11ARoyal Priest!

158:13CMy Lord! Honorable Priest, my Lord!

158:17AHonorable Priest, my Lord! But the, the, the elder did mention that there’s a heavy, um, Yoruba, you know, Ghanaian, um, and Nigerian influence in, uh, Guyana. So that could be --

158:29CIn Trinidad too!

158:30AYeah.

158:30CThey have, they have Orishas in Trinidad, you know. They have people doing the Nigerian religion in Trinidad.

158:38FYeah, we know this, we know this, but you know, we the one who come with the new name, you know, Rastafari, you know. So we understand all that and we not fight no one still, but we are the one who seek to know the face of God, you know.

158:52CIn Guyana, unfortunately, we interviewed an elderly woman, um, Mother -- what’s her name? Um, should I talk?

159:09DWhy not?

159:11CWe interviewed a woman who came from Guinea, whose parents came from Guinea as indentured. We had people -- I grew up among people who were Congo, like Gangang I was talking about. She used to tell me Congo are high ratio. Which means she was Congo, you know.

159:31FYeah, because look at that thing what I used to we used to be when we were small growing up and you do something stupid here was somebody would tell you what feel so stupid you come from Kayaku.

159:45CYes.

159:45FAnd is when I get big I get to understand it have an island named Kayaku and all the people on Kayaku the last name the surname is African.

159:57CYeah, look at that.

160:01FThe last name, the surname, is African. So somewhere along the line, they retain the identity in a way. But the way how they do, I will try to spin it off. They try to put Kayaku -- we don’t even know what is Kayaku, but we don’t know, we associate Kayaku with stupidness.

160:23CYes, like Timbuktu.

160:26FYou like that?

160:28CThey talk about Timbuktu as if it’s not a place, you know. Yes, yes, and everybody named Africa.

160:49FEverybody last name is African and is from Ghana, Ghana influence because Kwame and all them Kojoe and all them kind of names.

161:02CYes.

161:02AThat’s so.

161:03CYou know what I mean?

161:05FSo that connection, may want man of intelligence, man who scholars in the black world, who come with the scholastic meditation to bring these kind of reasoning out front so that the children of, of all these so-called Bajan, Jamaican, Trinidadian inventions can realize their weight now. Or at least one people, because that is what lifted me up, you know what I mean? When you look at today, but in New York, a portion of Black people are now holding by different flags, you know.

161:40AMm-hmm.

161:42CMm-hmm.

161:43FSo we want that solidarity. So we give thanks for the information while moving through the air, and we want to use them kind of things to our advantage so that after we can -- we want that solidarity. Black people need that solidarity amongst themselves to know we are brothers and sisters of one race regardless of where we are born, you know. And we owe allegiance to Mother Africa.

162:10CThank you for that coming in with that message. Thanks a lot. True one.

162:20AYes, honorable Mr. Kwayana, please. Yes, please.

162:26CYou wanted to come in?

162:31ACome in, my lad. Come in, Angel.

162:34CI was just speaking.

162:35FI give thanks, you know. I had been listening to the island, man, you know, more time. They say when you don’t have something to say, don’t say nothing. So true, may hear the island tonight and may have something to say because Trinidad at one time, the 1st of August, they used to celebrate Columbus Day.

162:55CYeah, yeah, yeah.

162:57FUntil we as Rastafar -- I put it in the papers in 1980. When Chambers come to power, to show him say how we could celebrate Columbus Day on the first of August is Emancipation Day. And that’s when they made it a public holiday.

163:13CCrazy people, man.

163:15FYou see? So the same way Indian in Trinidad, through them just get election and them run in Trinidad and them from ever since the 34th of May, them celebrate as Indian Arrival Day. You know, we as Black people, it’s like if them go like if we just drop from the sky, you know what I mean? All right, we calling upon all the scholars who doing all the diligent researches. These is some of the knowledge we want them to bring up in the forefront so that we can again say draw that solidarity amongst we other people so we can all know say Let’s look towards Africa. What can we do for Mother Africa? Because she has been holding us up all throughout the years. No matter where we’re born, they cannot take away our African identity, you know.

164:08CA man in Cayenne told me that in 1970, I was interviewing him, I told -- I was telling the priest, and I passed through Cayenne to go to the Lusaka Conference, When I asked him about his religion, the God of my grandfather is my God, and no one can take that from me. That’s what he told me in 1970.

164:39FOkay, because I see an incident as early the other day as a month back. And if much Haiti here, look how Haiti get devastated. May see one African government, the Senegalese, step up to the plate and say they willing to repatriate. I see one Stratcom and the Queen, yes, Queen step in and say them is she subjects. So up to now they still don’t want to come to these terms to say we were forcefully taken away and we have to be returned. We after this, that’s inevitable. You know them, we have said. So this is what we want because it was such a perfect occasion for Haiti, for the rest of them to rise up and say, well, listen, Haiti don’t, you know, so send me back with part on the tech reform from the first place. And that message we want pushed over wherever we don’t get comfortable. Yeah, I said Africa big football.

165:43ATrue. Thank you, my Lord, my Lord.

165:49DGive thanks for that.

165:49AOh, bless you, my Lord.

165:51FBlessed love. All right, Professor, blessed love and our blessed one and peace on you.

166:00AOh my Lord. Honorable Mr. Kaina, could, could you tell us, uh, the current day, uh, runnings in Guyana in terms of maybe the, the influence of Walter Rodney and from the revolutionary times until now? What’s going on currently for Guyana?

166:15CThat is a tough one. The Guyana politics today is a scramble. The ideas and the objectives of Walter Rodney and a lot of other people of those times are not there now. It’s just a scramble for money.

166:45ACorruption.

166:48CYeah, the place has become a big drug thing, but there are people there with the ideas, you know, but at the moment they’re not at the forefront. Society is listening for other things. People are very confused, a lot of crime, a lot of drugs, a lot of stealing.

167:12BAh.

167:15CFor the time being, you know, these ideas will come back. Every day they -- every year they celebrate Walter Rodney, and then you get a little run for a time, but then it goes out and it gets rise It’s the daily scramble for life and hustling, you know. It’s a hostile country. I don’t live there right now, so I can’t talk too much.

167:35ATrue, true.

167:37CI always believe in firsthand information, you know.

167:41AYeah, man. They show that from the beginning of the interview until now. The Eye is a hands-on elder, you know. We give thanks for such a living testimony and such a living sacrifice that the Eye has done. Mr. Quine, I can’t lie. I’ve mentioned your name anytime I meet a brother or sister that’s coming from Guyana. When I was living in Ghana, I would mention your name, you know, and they would know of the eye, you know, from young brethrens or sisters that were coming from Guyana to elder ones. They all know of the eye. So the eye has really done some great works, you know, and they’re on the radio, you know, Madassa. Madasi, madasi why?

168:24CYes.

168:25DNow we are we’re drawing to a close, honorable. So if you have any closing remarks, now would be the time. If you want to put out any contact information as well, you’re free to.

168:37CWell, I promise to send you some things, whatever I find.

168:41DOkay.

168:42CThe questions raised, I will send to you. I have your email address. And you will know how to get it to the questioners.

168:50ESure.

168:52CThank you very much for the invitation. I feel that I like a lot of the messages that came in. African people, as someone said, we are standing at the end of the longest queue in the history of the world. in the world.

169:11AHmm.

169:15CWe need to defend our culture and respect it because Africa has a lot to teach the world, has taught the world a lot. And we can go back here and get a lot of very valuable life lessons on every topic under the sun. If we would only believe it and search for it, it is there to be found. Pioneers in many ways. A country where human beings saw the light of day, which led -- was in the forefront of progress for many centuries. And here in this United States too. I’m going to send you my wife’s website, Priest Jaja.

170:14DSure.

170:15CI’m going to send you that URL for my wife’s website. She has a lot of astonishing things there about this country and the African heritage, you know.

170:25DOkay.

170:26CAnd we have to Spread the word. Thank you very much for inviting. Oh, yes, I already she sent you already.

170:38DOkay, okay, yes, I believe I got the links. Yes, yes, yes.

170:42AMr. Quiner, we’re going to have to invite you again on the show. You know, some time from now. You know, we just greatly appreciate you taking the time out of your your your your daily runnings. You know, we do give thanks.

170:53CThank you very much. Yeah, thanks for your -- can we get a copy of it? Are you taping this?

171:02AYes, yes, this is all -- this will all be on archives, you know, recorded digitally. That, um, I believe they can be, um, downloaded, you know, from, from the website there. So I think Honorable Pichaga can, um, get that information.

171:15DYes, I could email -- yes, I could email it to you, uh, tomorrow morning or Yeah, how long will it last? Forever.

171:23AThis is something that can be passed out for the generations.

171:26CYes, yes.

171:27AIt’s on a digital recording. This is monumental work, you know. And we give thanks again for such a great contribution, you know.

171:35CYes, and thank you for inviting me. I mean, I hope your audience enjoyed it. I enjoyed your questions. Sorry, I couldn’t answer all of them. I’m not a professor.

171:51DYou’re the professor tonight, trust me, my Lord.

171:54ABaba, you see, we love the eye. You may uncle, oh, you may uncle.

172:00CThank you, brother. One love.

172:02DYes, brother.

172:03AMuch respect.

172:06DPardon?

172:08CMuch respect.

172:09DOkay, much respect to you, brother. Love, my Lord. And take care. Bless up your Empress.

172:16CThank you.

172:17DAll right. So yes.

172:19AGreet everyone, my Lord, you know.

172:21DSure. Thanks.

172:23CAnd you too. Do the same when you get home to yours.

172:27AYou think I’m gonna call the eyes when we get off this show? Don’t worry, you know.

172:30CRespect. All right. Thank you.

172:33AThanks.

172:33DAll right.

172:34CI’m hanging up.

172:36DYes.

172:37BAll right.

172:37DLove, my Lord. Let’s give thanks. So yes, everyone listening, we give thanks. Honor the Prophet Kwame, we give thanks for the link. Bobo Shanti.

172:48AOh my God, you have to, you have to bring us in with a little service, my guy. You’re, you’re a royal priest, you know, on the altar of Melchizedek, my guy. Make you close out the show with some, some service for Aina, you know. Yeah, I want some prayers for Aina, you know. The world needs Bobo Shanti, you know.

173:04DTrue, true. The Father say, you know, God is love, that it’s all love, you know. So we have to just hold on to that first love what the Father teach us, you know, love of Christ, love of salvation. So give thanks. Even next Thursday, um, next episode Thursday night, we’re gonna have Empress Marina dealing with the topic of love within the Black royal family, you know, the Rasta man and woman, you know what I mean. So, um, definitely looking forward to hear the Empress reasoning. So we definitely, uh, like I say, want to rekindle that family, you know, uh, uh, unit amongst us as a people, as a race, you know, because a lot of youths growing up, young youths with no fathers, and, you know, so situation is rough as a people, you know.

173:47DSo Empress is going to deal with that issue, you know, once coming together as a unit. Let us build our family, our Royal Nation Wealth Kingdom. You know, because we want to, you know, right now we’re in overtime right now, you know. So the whole thing right now is for us to come together. As a man said, gather every straw into one bundle, you know. So glorify for the Father done say unity is strength, you know. Even as the elder said, that his majesty was the one that the nations would call for unity, you know. Whenever there’s a disagreement, they would call for the emperor to even bind, you know, I mean, that broken heart, you know.

174:25DSo we give thanks, you know, for the Father of Life, you know, the Father of Love, you know, the King of Love, my Shepherd is, you know, Holy Emmanuel. So yes, on the river, you know, we’re gonna close out with some night being given. We give thanks for all of those listening, tuning in. Like I said, check us Thursday night, same time, you know, same station. You know, we glorify, you know, my Lord, for the link. You know, more life and prosperity today, my Lord.

174:57AOh my God, I just love to give out Honorable Priest Gyate’s number. You know, our acting chairman in Ghana. I would love ones to please, um, give the angel a call at [number removed]. Please give the angel a call. We have to continue building the tabernacle in, uh, Chimnu Tapu. Give thanks, my Lord, for such a royal show. Continue with the works. More encouragement. King Emmanuel the Seven. Adonai, Rapha, Ra. I am blessed, my Lord, and him.

175:33DMy Lord, bless you.

175:44BOh Lord, oh Lord, deliver Daniel. Deliver Daniel. Deliver Daniel. Oh Lord, oh Lord, deliver Daniel. Come out of the fire. O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave. O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave. O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

176:33CO’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

176:34BFor the land of the free and the home of the brave. Never pray before. They will have to pray this day. Oh Lord, oh Lord, nilavadanya, nilavadanya. Oh Lord, oh Lord. Oh Lord, oh Lord. Deliver Daniel from out of the lion’s den. For the wind bloweth in the wilderness. When the winds in my God’s best favor, I’ll learn people never prayed before. And they will have to pray this day. Oh Lord, oh Lord, I’ll tell you about Daniel. I’ll tell you about Daniel. I’ll tell you about Daniel. Oh Lord, oh Lord, I’ll tell you about Daniel. From out of the lion’s den. For the wind bloweth, and the wind goeth away. It came like God made my way. All them people never prayed before, and they will have to pray this day.

178:57FAmen.

179:02BAll them all Zion, Zion, Zion. Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty. Early in the morning our song shall rise to your most high celestial heights.