2:02BBack and go put it on him lap and go fall in a trap and so burn him let he drop. But don’t just me that really not the middle of the dream, the middle of the dream before the people them come in, the people them come in, the people them come in. Some may say that Walter Rodney was no shark for the sea and all that him did want was to set them people free with the work ’Cause I’m the peasant who should cooperate, but like a fish to the hook, I’m go bite, burn, and beat. You know see how me dream come just get blown to smithereens, blown to smithereens, not the middle of the dream, the middle of the dream before the really crucial scene, the really crucial scene when the people them come in.
3:17AUh-huh, Norman.
3:19DHold on one sec here.
3:25AUh-huh. Good, how are you?
3:27EGood, good.
3:28AAll right, we’re all set up.
3:32DLet’s see, we got about another minute of, um, of Yeah, okay, let it roll into the Walter Rodney, or yeah, the Walter Rodney. Yes. All right, okay, just came out of the previous show, so just making a transition here.
4:55FWell, this is a tribute to the great Dr. Walter Rodney from my man Louis Levkin. Where right now I’m feeling hurt, Mr. Badley, is Africa down in a history. Me confident about the great Walter Rodney. Him now, me say them kill Kill Walter Rodney. I’m right, you know me said this earth is a bad place. And I take it lean up because down in Australia, John met me telling you said them kill Walter Rodney. Guy, me man said due to the fire in Guyana. Me say I do to a fire in Guyana. Me said them pull Walter Rodney say my ringleader. He must be sent me by Rasta.
5:35FI met me telling you said them come from Jamaica. Walter Rodney was an American teacher, but right, you know Me say them kill Walter Rodney. Lord, me God, me say it hurt me so badly. And that they kill him, he go down in a heap straight. Me say them kill Walter Rodney. Me say them never use a gun, them never use a SLR. Them never use a gun, them never use a SLR. Them set a time bomb and them bomb up him car. Them kill Walter Rodney. Let me tell you how it hurt me so badly. ’Cause if one black man come Just right. They all of them make up on them out them life.
6:19FThem kill Walter Rodney. So me tell you, said them kill Walter Rodney. And right now me said it hurt me so badly. And you to the fire in a guy. And you to the fire in a guy. And me said them all Walter Rodney say Marine leader, he must be same thing. Jamaican tell you say them come from Jamaica. Say Walter Rodney was an American. Jamaican tell you say them kill Walter Rodney.
6:51BRight?
6:51AYeah.
6:52FJamaican tell you say them kill Walter Rodney. We say them never use a gun, them never use a SLR. Them set a time bomb and them bomb up him car and them kill Walter Rodney. जो मैं मैं किल्ले से दितर्क ने सामान लिया, right या no में same bags. Because the kill Malcolm X में same bags. Because the kill Malcolm X का why हुआ अब समझ assassination. La people la corona kill innocent one same bags. कदमा kill Malcolm X में same bags. Kill me said the kill Malcolm X and then kill Walter. Right, just the right. They make up and them out in light. Now they kill Walter Rodney. They kill love me Prophet Bob Marley.
8:08GUhuru, you are listening to Diasporic Music on Uhuru Radio. My name is Norman Otis Richmond, aka Jalali, and this is Diasporic Music on Uhuru Radio. And we came out of the box tonight with the music of Louis Lipke, a song about Walter Rodney, and Lynton Kwesi Johnson out of the UK. He did reggae for Rodney. And we’re going to be speaking a little bit later to Eusi Kwayana, a Guyanese, an African from Guyana who has been in the struggle from the beginning. And he was a member of the People’s Progressive Party. He also was a member of the Working People’s Alliance. And he has a long history of struggle in Guyana.
9:00GBut we’ll be speaking to him. But first of all, I would like to thank Chairman Omali Yeshitela for giving me this space on Uhuru Radio and Archie Shepp for giving me the concept of diasporic music. And if you want to get a hold of us, you can hit us up on the email, which is dj@uhururadio.com, and the Skype option is just Uhuru Radio. And if you want to telephone us, if you want to phone us, if you’re in North America, You can phone [number removed], and if you’re in the UK, you can phone [number removed]. And we’re going to continue with the music of Marcia Griffiths, Judy Mowatt, and Rita Marley.
9:52GThese are the I Threes, and the song is called Many Are Called. Many are called.
10:51ATo find. Many say that they are our sisters.
11:01ESisters.
11:03AThere ain’t much to find. Many come saying brother love, love, love. Many come saying sister hate, hate, hate. Many come saying peace and unity, but there ain’t no peace to find. ’Cause many are called, few are chosen. You’ve got to be aware. Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Many are called, few are chosen. You’ve got to be aware. Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Many come saying, brother, love, love, love. Many come saying, sister, hate, hate, hate. Many come saying, Peace and unity, but there ain’t no peace tonight. There’s a land that I have heard about so far across the sea. To have you on my dreamland would be like heaven to me.
14:53ETo me.
14:53ATo have you on my dreamland would be like heaven to me. We’ll live together on that dreamland and we’ll have So much fun. We live together on that dreamland, and we’ll have so much fun. We’ll get our breakfast from the trees. We’ll get our honey from the bees. We’ll take a ride on the waterfall. We’ll count the stars in the sky. And surely we’ll never die. And surely we’ll never die. And surely we’ll never die. And surely we’ll never die. And surely we’ll never die. Oh, what a time that will be. Oh, just you wait, wait, wait and see. And surely we’ll never die.
17:03GYou are listening to Uhuru Radio on -- this is Diaspora Music on Uhuru Radio. We were listening to the music of Marcia Griffiths. She did Dreamland and the I Threes, which featured Marcia Griffiths. Griffith did Many Are Called, but Few Are Chosen.
17:19CAnd this is --
17:20Gyou’re listening to the Uhuru Radio Network, and we’re going to continue with the music of Bob and Marcia and Nina Simone’s Young, Gifted, and Black.
17:42AOh, what a lovely, precious dream to be young, gifted, and black. Open your heart to what I mean. In the whole world, you know, there’s a million boys and girls who are young, gifted, and black, and that’s a fact. Gifted and Black. Let’s begin to tell our young. There’s a world waiting for you. This quest has just begun. When you feel really low, yeah, there’s a great truth you should know. When you’re young, Gifted and Black. Your soul’s intact. Young, gifted, and black. How I long to know the truth. There are times when I look back and I am haunted by my youth. Open my door up today.
19:09AIs that we can all be proud to say, to be young, gifted, and black is where it’s at. Young, gifted, and black must begin to tell our young there’s a world Waiting for you. This is a quest that’s just begun. Oh, when you feel real alone, yeah, there’s a great truth you should know. When you’re young, gifted, and black, your soul’s intact. Young, gifted, and black. How I long to know the truth. There are times when I look back and I am haunted by my youth. Oh, and my joy today is that we can all be proud to say, to be young in Little Black Town.
20:35CCan you hear that all right? Yep. For you see me, I ain’t got much to blame. I’m gonna fall within right here, right now, when thin ice try to peel.
22:03ASomething tells me that there’s really one thing keeping me up. I’m giving my name, I did, for your lips and the gods and all the guts.
22:16GThey say Good afternoon, you are listening to Diasporic Music. This is the Uhuru Radio. My name is Norman Otis Richmond, aka Jalali, speaking to you. I am currently in Los Angeles, California, and I’m speaking, getting ready to interview Eusi Kwayana, a political activist, writer, and educator who will be in Toronto, Canada from September 27th to October 26th. And he will be doing a number of events. On Friday the 28th of September, he will be at the He will be doing a book signing at A Different Booklist. He will be doing a number of lectures, but he has put together a new book called Walter Rodney: His Last Days and Campaigns, and he will be signing the book at A Different Booklist, who is a sponsor of this radio station and this radio show. And I would like to welcome to the airwaves Eusi Kwayana. How are you doing, Eusi?
24:06CWell, thank you very much, brother. My respects to you.
24:10GYou know, you have been on a couple of my shows before, but today we wanted to talk about a number of issues. We wanted to talk about your book. We wanted to also talk about the recent elections in Guyana in November of 2011. We wanted to talk about Haiti and whatever other issues you wanted to deal with, but I guess we will begin with your The Walter Rodney book and your visit to Toronto, Canada.
24:41CYes, thank you. I’d like to hear your thoughts on your coming to Toronto.
24:53GWhat can people expect when you show up at --
24:56Cwhen you do your tour of Toronto? Oh, thank you. Some kind people there have invited me and made it possible, and I’m very grateful for that. I hope that my frail body will stand up to the rigors of such a visit.
25:15GYou’re only 87 years old, right?
25:20CI beg your pardon?
25:22GI said you are only 87 years old, so you --
25:25CWell, I am all of 87 years old.
25:28GPlus, okay.
25:29CI wouldn’t say only. When you get there, you’ll know better, Brother Norman. All right. Yes, so I am looking forward to it. As you know, I have been to Canada before, in the old days as we call them, and I have spoken at a number of places and met a wide cross-section of Guyanese people in particular and other Caribbean people. And so I’m looking forward to it. This book is a new publication. It’s a book written much earlier, after the assassination of Walter Rodney, dealing with his role in Caribbean politics, and in particular in Guyanese politics. as a historical figure and at a particular historical time. And that is what I had attempted to do in this book in the 1980s. This, uh, Mr. Lalki in Birmingham saw it and got very excited about it and thought it should it should be known to a wider audience. I’m very happy for that. And he’s in Birmingham, England, that is to say Birmingham, England, not Alabama. Not Alabama, no.
27:10GRight.
27:11CYes, and he is of Guyanese origin himself. He happened to be there at the time of this tragic event. And he remembers and recalls the day of the funeral very clearly. Yeah, you were saying something, please.
27:31GNo, I was saying Walter was assassinated in 1981, right?
27:36CJune 1981? No, that is 1980.
27:39G1980. Bob died in 1981.
27:42CI’m getting mixed up.
27:43GIn 1980, right.
27:46CYeah. So he -- what he did was to get a number of people to take part in this publication. He got a young -- 2 young poets of Guyanese origin, I believe. One Huntley and the other whose name I’ll call in a minute. But one was of Indian-Guyanese origin and the other of African-Guyanese origin.
28:15GRight.
28:16CAnd he got Professor Clem Situran to write the introduction of the book, and I’m very grateful to Dr. Situran for undertaking that because he followed those events in Guyana very clearly at the time and was not at all out of touch and was able to bring a new perspective to the original writings. So with his contribution and with the publisher’s contribution, Mr. Lalji himself, it is a much enriched publication. what I attempted in the 1980s.
29:06GRight.
29:08CThen, in addition to that, he had a very ceremonial launching in Birmingham in which Dr. Clemency Cheran spoke, and he was able to get hold of a colleague of Walter Rodney’s that taught with him in Tanzania. speak at this launching.
29:33GWho was that?
29:35CI have to get his name. I beg your pardon?
29:42GNo, I said Walter. For people that are listening, Walter taught many years in Tanzania, and yet he, uh, he taught many people in Tanzania, right?
29:59CI’ll be bringing that out in a minute or so, but I don’t have the name. His name is David, but I don’t know David what.
30:06GOkay, but you can continue.
30:11CBecause this book, I tried to recapture Walter Rodney’s last days and campaign in Guyana. As the title styles it. It was a very significant period. It was in many ways something new in Caribbean politics, because we of the older generation -- I always warn the younger generation, we of the older generation in the 1950s, and that is what I mean in this context of the older generation. I know there are people older than that, and I know there are young -- there are younger people who are -- who consider themselves old and mature, and I’m not challenging them. But in the 1950s, when we were fighting the colonial system, we had a certain different kind of mindset.
31:07CWe saw ourselves as champions of the people, you know, standing in the place of the people sometimes, in the front ranks of the people sometimes. And it was a whole different kind of politics from the one that Walter Rodney introduced. In Walter’s time, what he emphasized was Empowerment, people’s power. In our time, it was getting rid of the colonial power and putting in its place a native power, hopefully elected and representative of the people, but not in the same sense. But what Walter Rodney brought and to the Caribbean and to the movement was -- you see, people have to remember that Walter Rodney was not a leader.
32:23CHe was a freedom fighter. He followed an intellectual academic profession and he called himself a member of the petit bourgeoisie because of his profession, and he had a lot to say about the responsibilities of that grouping of people who had come up through the academy and so on, and through the professions. And he said very clearly that they had one rule, and their rule was to make themselves available to the masses of working people, learn from them, and assist their struggles as much as possible, because that is where the crux of change lay, not with the small, well-educated class, which could make significant contributions but was not the real striking force of history.
33:22CNow, he came to Bayan at a time when Parliamentary democracy was a sham. There was a parliament, a court, and all the trappings of what would appear to be a democracy, even an ombudsman, all of which were subject to the higher powers of the rulers. This kind of situation in Guyana mystified the whole Caribbean region. for a couple of decades. As we know, I come from the ’50s. I was part of the foundation of the People’s Progressive Party. That party was founded in 1955. Yes, I do have a point.
34:11GNo, I say I was getting ready to ask you to go into the history of the -- explain the PPP and the PNC, which you were getting ready to do. We’re going back to the ’50s before before independence, you were part of the People’s Progressive Party, and then you --
34:28CI’d like you to go into the People’s Progressive Party. Yes, I was a foundation member of the People’s Progressive Party.
34:32GRight.
34:33CI was one of those selected by the British as Syrian leaders when they invited in 19 -- by that name, they called me so-and-so. I think they said, um, Teddy, and Rory Westmoss.
34:51GYour name is Sidney King, right?
34:54CMy name at the time was Sidney King, and they said to name -- the British always had a very negative perspective of me because of course I came from the bottom. I never went to a university in their country or any country for that matter. like the other colleagues I was associated with, except for Ashton Chase. And so they saw me as some kind of raw matter, you know, dark energy.
35:31GRight, right.
35:33CI wouldn’t see how I saw them, but we had very little in common. So this party engaged in an election in 1953. I must tell you that I was against the idea of winning the election in 1953 because I live in the rural areas. I’m not a city person. I don’t have a whole-sided view of the population.
36:01GMm-hmm.
36:03CI am acquainted with the dynamics of the Indian population, of the African population, of the mixed populations. That’s where I grew from childhood, and I do not have the unique perspective of being an urban person who perhaps has not had the, um, the experience I just mentioned. So I was not --
36:31GYou’re from --
36:33CI beg your pardon?
36:35GI say you are from a place called Buxton in Guyana, correct?
36:39CYeah, I grew up in Buxton.
36:41GRight.
36:41CI’m really from a sugar estate called Lusignan, near to Buxton. That is where I was born and spent my first 7 years. And at the age of 7, my family moved to Buxton, that is to say, my mother. And my father, who was a sort of traveling worker, he was not always in the country. So I grew up in Buxton. Buxton then was a multiethnic situation with a majority of Africans, but also with a significant Indian population and a heavy sprinkling of Portuguese and Chinese and so on. So I had a view and perspective of the movement that was not totally shared, and I’m not blaming anybody for this.
37:31CPerhaps my view was not entirely That was you. But I moved a motion at the executive committee that, yes, we can win these elections, but let us not win them, because what we need is about 8 people like Chetty Jagannathan. You see, Chetty Jagannathan was in the Parliament from 1947 up to that time of the new election in 1953. I was one of those who supported him in 1947. There was, of course, ethnic competition about whether you should have an African candidate or an Indian candidate. Lok Sabha was heavily in favor of Jagannath until a gentleman named A.J.L. Palma, a village element, a village politician from the West Bank of Demerara, was brought into the picture.
38:25CHe was rather elderly at the time, and I had no difficulty with The choice that I made, and what came down to a rather narrow circle, because most of the population felt, ah, here comes an African candidate. We had been voting for John Digara, a Portuguese candidate, for these last 2 elections, and here now we have a chance to vote for an African candidate. So that not all of them, but the bulk of them went along with it. Mr. H.L. Palmer. I did not, because what took me -- what made me interested in politics was not that. It was the message that came from Jagannath as a new element on the political scene.
39:16CWorkers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains.
39:19GRight.
39:20CAnd that’s when I said, oh, this politics has something in it. Before that, I thought it was just, you know, playing these things in the national -- in the, um, Legislative Council, talking back and making a lot of fine phrases, and had very little respect for it. I used it for amusement, more or less, and to get some idea of what was going on. But then I heard this, I said, this is something in which there can be a purpose. And that is what brought me into national politics. Let me just say that --
39:55Gcould I just say that you’re listening to Diasporic Music on Uhuru Radio. This is Diasporic Music, and I’m on the line with Eusi Kwayana, who is based in the United States but who is a pioneer in the struggle for Caribbean and the liberation of the people Yeah, thank you.
40:18CI don’t know what you mean by based. I’m really based and glad I’m living here. No, did I say you’re based?
40:24GYou’re based in San Diego. I thought I said that.
40:27CYeah, you said that.
40:28GOh, okay.
40:29CI said I don’t know what you mean by based.
40:30GOh, you live --
40:32Cyou’re living in San Diego. I live here. Yeah, that’s what I mean. I’m based here. I’m from --
40:38GYou’re from Guyana.
40:40CYeah, I understand. Yeah, so the party decided, both Burnham and Jagan said no. Their response was, the only person who thought I was making sense was Martin Carter. Everybody else said, no, if you’re fighting, you’re fighting to win. Jagan and Burnham were unanimous in those very words. If you’re fighting, you’re fighting to win. And so I put my little concerns aside and went into the fight. And you won. Headlong into the battle, and of course I knew he would win. And I was one of the few who knew he would win too, because it was the days of rum elections, and they were afraid that since our party was not getting into that, that people would be deceived by the amounts spent on rum and drinks and treating and all of that. But I knew. The chumps are sitting on the street, them go drink the rum and vote who they want to vote for. You follow?
41:41GYeah.
41:41CThat’s all they were saying. They said, bring the rum out, let me go drink the rum. And the old regime had a shock of its life because they flooded the place with liquor and cheating. The PPP did none of that except the boys. And I knew this was going to be the outcome because this is where I’m from. I live all the time among -- in the masses. I haven’t lived in any sort of exclusive housing scheme in my life. I spent one month when I was not very well at a place in Greater Georgetown that could be called that kind of place, but that was all. I’ve always lived on the backdam side of the village, coming out of the estate. So, so I was making a point that this party unfortunately was booted out of office on the 8th of October, 1953, by British gunboats under the accusation that we wanted to set up a communist state subordinate to Moscow.
42:51GMm-hmm.
42:51CThat was a lot of nonsense. It is true that many of us had a political orientation which resembled that, and we were part of the international peace movement and so on, which was headed by the USSR. You know, they had their big games going on in the outer world. We were under a colonial system, showed us nothing break. And but to establish a conspiracy about subordination to Moscow was a lot of nonsense, and they knew it. But it was the United States of America that had these extraordinary fears and kept pressing the British government that this was a an American leak, and they had the Monroe Doctrine, and they would not allow any foreign power to come and make a presence in this hemisphere. But you know the rest of it. So the party was kicked out of office in 1953, after --
44:05G1953, right.
44:09COn the 27th of April, 1953.
44:12GMm-hmm.
44:13CWe were kicked out on the 8th of October, 1953. 133 days according to Ashton Chase’s calculation. He’s the one who counted the days. So soon after that, you know, troops walking all over the country, foreign troops and so on. And under the pressures of that kind of intervention, to make a long story short, because I don’t have a lot of time, I told you, the party split in 1955. It split, so far as the public were concerned, into 2 factions: the Burnham faction and the Jagan faction. The Burnham faction was the one that made the challenge because they were not in a majority in the executive and they did not like the overall policy of the party. And there were other things perhaps playing, at play, other dynamics. You know, there was the ethnic dynamic which none of them ever acknowledged or accepted to be a factor. It was left to me and others not there at that time in 1953 to bring this to the public notice, that there are ethnic dynamics in this business and we ought to find a domestic solution that will be suitable and acceptable Now we’re basically talking about --
45:57Gexcuse me, you see, but we’re talking about the, the Burnham’s Party became --
46:01Cwas a --
46:02Gbecame the People’s National Congress. Am I correct in saying that?
46:06CIt did not immediately become the People’s National Congress. Immediately after the split in 1955, it became the PPP Burnham, and later on it was the PPP Jackham.
46:17GRight.
46:18CWe used to call them BNG.
46:20GAll right, okay.
46:21CThere was a lot of duplication of what was going on in Eastern Europe in movies, and I can explain now. So it was after the election of 1957, which was won by the PPP, that the PNC took that name. The PPP took that name, PNC.
46:45GThanks for clarifying that. I didn’t realize that.
46:48COh yes, we had 2 PPPs from 1955 to 1957. In fact, the people, a large number of people did not even believe there was a real split. They thought the leaders were just fooling the British until another election, and a lot of people ignored it. I had that hope for years, but it was very real.
47:14GNow where was Walter Rodney in all of this?
47:17CHe was --
47:18Ghe talked about he supported -- his family supported the PPP in the very beginning, correctly?
47:24DCorrect?
47:24CYes, yes, most intelligent people supported the PPP, if I may say that. His father was a tailor. His father worked as an artisan, you know, a tailor, a tradesman. living. Very intelligent man. I had the good fortune of knowing him in his last years. His mother was also a beautiful person. I think she was a teacher, but she was a beautiful person, you know, a real mother. I knew her too. I knew them only after Walter returned, really, but they had all been in the movement in the 1950s.
48:02GAnd so you’ll be coming to Toronto to clear -- to basically talk about this particular book, because I know you don’t have that much time and you wanted to talk about the, uh, what took place in November 2011.
48:21CThere was an election. I want to ask the public, um, to excuse me for skipping a lot that I have discussed before on this radio station, but I can always come back if there is any real curiosity in it, because there is a lot that should be said here now that is not being said because I have to go to another topic. But let me say in summary that Guyana has been plagued by ethnic competition for government in particular, above all. Ever since 1955. It began before, but it sharpened after 1955. In 1953, ’50, ’53, ’47 to ’53, largely under the inspiration of Cheddi Jagan’s activity and the kind of election campaign he ran, which was very novel, appealing to all all races of people, of the working people, not like the old politicians.
49:32CThen came the Anmol strike of 1948, and before that there was the bauxite strike of 1946, and there was a government strike of 1950. These 3 sectors signaled very clearly to the imperial power that Time was up. Things could not go on in the old way. And so all the politics and so that developed, developed out of those bases of people making their claims on life after emancipation and the end of indenture. So I have to skip all of that. I have to skip my own split with the PPP, which was on the issue of federation. in 1956-57, my own joining of the PNC, the People’s National Congress, on the same issue of federation.
50:27GMm-hmm.
50:28CAnd for the reason, as I stated publicly, that politics had become racial, and that if an Indian Marxist could see certain things, my job was to organize Africans. As a Marxist. I made this very clear in public.
50:45GMm-hmm.
50:45CNow Rodney came onto the scene after African insecurity in the political life of the country had shown itself in a certain unnecessary way. I say unnecessary because a small group of us had put forward a formula for national unity. It was called Joint Premiership. It’s a human rights body for minorities, so that if the major parties that were joined together violated their rights, they could appeal to this body and have redress. We had a hard side to this, an alternative which we which we described as partition of the country as a last resort. If the leaders could not come together now and discuss on a national peace, then peaceful way out is to give each person a part of the country. This was inspired by the Indian example and by Malcolm X and, you know, those who were demanding that kind of solution in the United States of America, a territory of your own, of self-determination.
52:04GMm-hmm.
52:06CNow, the point I had interest in was the joint membership, but both leaders rejected it, and the thing went into a tailspin, because after that, it was a head-on collision between 2 ethnic groups now separately organized politically with separate political leaderships. The old kind of differences did not have that advantage-disadvantage. But now each race was organized on its own, had its own leader, and therefore a kind of pre-nation was taking place. And then the Amerindians were there looking on There’s very little to say in all of this.
52:54GNow the Amerindians are the, the original, the, uh, the indigenous people to, to, to that part of the world. Yes, right.
53:05CThey’re the same, the same people throughout the Americas who are called Turks, Arawaks.
53:11GFirst Nations in Canada, right?
53:14CAll the names, the First Nations, right? Right. When Walter Rodney came back, the government was a virtual dictatorship. The TNC had to use Mr. Burnham’s phrase, won elections by other means, as he put it very publicly. He was challenged once for fostering the Little Eight Federation of the West Indies because he wanted to use it to win elections in Guyana. And he said very publicly, no, we don’t want the Little Eight to win elections, we have other means. Those other means resulted in what we have been describing. After 1973, it became very clear that the ruling party had no credibility electorally. I had been General Secretary of the TNC after the first 2 General Secretaries went abroad and spent a lot of time, as I had done in the PPP, organizing at the ground grassroots level, establishing groups all over the place and so on.
54:37CSo I worked with both communities very, very closely and intimately. When Walter Rodney came back, things were very dim. He came back in 1974. PPP, which at the time had a clear majority of the electorate, could not win electorally, and it was a stalemate. And a lot of agitation was going on inside of the country, and we decided, a few of us, one, some from the old PPP, some from the PNC, and others came together and said, we, we have to do something else here. And so an African cultural organization called ASCREA, the African Society for Cultural Relations with Independent Africa, the Indian Political Revolutionary Associates mainly, and Ratoon, the university group, came together with the Working People’s Sangha party led by Mr.
55:52CBrindley Benn, who was in and out of the PPP and eventually went back to them. His son is now a minister. And we established Working People’s Alliance for a struggle for new politics in Guyana that was not based on ethnic loyalties, because although we respect ethnic loyalties, ethnic cultures, so far as cultural life, family life, and things like that might be concerned. We have no sympathy with an Indian party or an African party because the country belongs to everybody and everybody should participate in its management. This is where the WPA was headed. Walter Rodney came back after the WP was organized as a, what he called, a pressure group, but a very influential one.
56:51CWe were publishing an organ called Be Clean. The first copy of Be Clean was published in the United, you know, Trinidad and Tobago, and to show the kind of problems we were facing in Guyana, it was not allowed to land in Guyana. It was banned by the customs. It was banned under a customs order under which you could exclude things like sardines and saltfish and paper and so on. And that was used. So it was not an anti-press order. It was an anti-commodity order. order, but the commodity happened to be daily newspapers, you see. That was the kind of scale we were dealing with in Guyana.
57:47CWalter Rodney looked around and decided that he would throw in his lot with the Working People’s Alliance, and he began a number of public lectures on history and general culture and so on that people found very interesting. No, I have to say that the great merit of Walter Rodney’s contribution was the fact that he came into it after not simply ethnic division. And I know there are a number of people that are listening here that do not even know this history. They write letters, you know. And they make claims and so on. I do not take them on publicly because they are mostly young people and I cannot blame them for not knowing.
58:38CNor would I be discussing all of this here in public unless something had happened in Guyana last November that I consider historic. What happened? Noteworthy and worthy of more public knowledge in this hemisphere and in the world, because people do not know, people do not realize what happened in Guyana. There were years and years of this kind of substandard electoral system in which the PNC eventually won. Established a government. And that changed in 1992, but it changed only after years of struggle led by opposition forces -- PPP numerically the strongest of them, the working people energetically in those particular years the strongest of them, and other parties of the middle class, like the Liberator Party and so on, that were for business people.
59:56CWe joined with everybody, with trade unions and everybody. There’s a trade unionist in this country now named George Daniels who was head of a union in Guyana that took part in this struggle for democracy, for rectification of the political Many people had to leave for their safety. They did not consider it safe. They had reason not to consider it safe to remain there. So after all of this, in the 1960s, there was ethnic violence. 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964. These were years of ethnic violence. Before that, you used to hear of election deaths in other countries, in particular Jamaica.
60:55GWas this violence -- was it primarily African and Indians, or was it -- does it Was it everyone participated in? Was it, was it, uh, Portuguese versus African, African versus --
61:13CThere was an African versus Portuguese thing in the 19th century, the 1850s and later, so-called Angel Gabriel Riots, Portuguese Riot, and so on. That had its own particular game. It was not a struggle for power. It was a communal struggle. The struggles of the 1960s were struggles for power.
61:41GMm-hmm.
61:41CAnd that is why I can claim that our formula would have averted it. And the thing that Walter Rodney’s great merit is that he came after all of that bitterness, bloodshed, bitterness, and the bitterness that follows bloodshed. And was able to be the center of a new developing unity of the masses of people of Guyana, of all races, none excluded. And that was a great merit of his teaching, his presence, and his politics, because he was teaching people’s story. This was new at the level of national politics in the Caribbean. People’s power. So then he went down as People’s Power Nordic Theater. He wrote a small book with that title.
62:40CAnd in the history of the Guyanese working people, he has explained the development of the working people, showing that it was not At its heart, a struggle of races. It was a struggle against the plantation. In fact, the unity that was developed in 1953 was a coalition of anti-plantation forces in Guyana. That’s how I look back on it and see it as. So now, after all of this to and froing and And various attempts at national unity. Jagan brought out his own attempt at national unity in 1977 called the National Patriotic Front. It was based on Marxism-Leninism and therefore frightened a lot of people. The WPA gave it a welcome, but criticized the state form which was too centralized and dominant.
63:44CThe PPP rejected it. The PNC rejected it. Then in 1985, the PNC put forward a proposal for national unity in which they and the PPP engaged in discussions, which were revealed by a participant some years later. I never really denied, but But now, in 19 -- in 2011, there’s an election. There was an election in 2001, it was disastrous. And the aftermath of that election is what got me here, because certain things developed around the village where I lived about which I strongly disapproved.
64:30GMm-hmm.
64:31CI had to come back to the village. to the country on a visit to my family, and we considered it unwise for me to go back into a place I no longer knew. The place was reeling with antagonism, violence, and all of that. So there was an election in 2001, and that was the result. There was an election in 2006, And it ended with a PPP reelection to power. Then there came this election in 2011. It was a strange election because antagonists who could not stand on the same platform stood on the same platform. The PNC, which is the one we had to be fighting in the ’70s and ’80s and early ’90s to establish a normative order.
65:43CThe PNC, the Working People’s Alliance, and some other parties got together and established something called A Partnership for National Unity. A Partnership for National Unity. APNU. Now the very sound of the words national unity will evoke some, you know, great attraction to many of us. I was here. I was not there for the election. I looked on. I had no objection to the new coalition, whatever. And this is significant for me. Before that, I had not been able to engage in anything involving the PNC. Now that the PNC came into coalition -- and I hope the younger people who are listening will understand that I’m being very frank with them and with the world -- Now that the PNC could come into a coalition and say, we are fighting for partnership, for national unity, to put aside all the old unnecessary infighting within the nation so that the resources of Guyana could be made available to all.
67:07Cpeople without exception and discrimination regarding race, religion, ethnicity, gender, age. This was very uplifting to me, and I looked on. Now, the election results were very, very interesting. I had to go home in December 2011, because my brother unfortunately passed away and we got some, a lot of support to get our tickets to go home, my wife and I and our eldest son. People gave us SkyMiles, money between the United States and Canada, for example, and we were able to go home.
67:58GThank you.
67:59CI was glad to go home because I could sense the atmosphere. The atmosphere -- and I saw only Africans. I didn’t go to any Indian. It was a funeral. I went to the house at Box Hill and stayed there all the time. So those were mainly the people that I saw. They came in and I walked about and so on. I heard no -- not a word of bitterness. On the radio there was news of the young people in Georgetown marching and demanding, uh, what they felt was due to them. But the election results as they came out were very promising because it was nobody’s victory. It was nobody’s victory, but it was a people’s victory. And this is what I’m going to argue for the last few minutes, and please bear with me if I sound overbearing and, and sound like some -- somebody Because this is --
68:54GNo, no, you, you can say what you want to say. This is Uhuru Radio, so we are --
69:00CThank you.
69:01GYou’re not on CBS.
69:03CIn Guyana, it is not yet Uhuru.
69:05GAll right.
69:08CAlthough the people made all the necessary arrangements for a true Uhuru for everyone. Yeah, this is all right. The results came out in such a way that according to the Constitution, If there are more than 2 candidates, if there are any -- if there is more than one candidate, the one that comes first wins. That person doesn’t have to have 50% or 51% or anything like that. You come first, you win. Look, and that is how the PPP won the president, and that is why the PPP can claim that they won in November 2011. It is true that the president, His Excellency Mr. Donald Ramotar, later began to accuse the opposition of rigging the election.
69:57CNow, they have been in Thailand -- they have been in government for 20 years, from 1992. And they are going to tell us in 2011, while they are in government, that the opposition rigged an election. You know, the thing was ridiculous. Nobody, nobody really accepted it. But this is how they tried to explain their failure to win an overall majority. I would say their failure to win an overall majority, the kindest way I can say, is because they are human like everybody else. They have feelings. The people spotted these feelings and voted for them with less enthusiasm. They had lost very important elements from their central executive, and so they did not get the unanimous vote they are accustomed to get.
70:52CThat is a slander on a lot of people, let me withdraw it. They did not get the overwhelming majority that they are accustomed to get and that they boasted about in the editorial of the Chronicle On August 1st, 2007, we wrote that in an editorial that the earlier government, the overwhelming majority of a certain ethnic group in Guyana, those people put that in writing on 1st of August editorial. What reason I do not know. So they announced, um, they announced expressions in it. Chronicler, nothing new. Now, this is how the people voted. The people did not sit down and conspire that this is how they will vote.
71:41CThis is how things played out. The result was the PPP won the presidency. On the opposition, APNU, this Partnership for National Unity, won 27 seats. The AFC, that is Yes. The Alliance for Change, I think is the name, a respectable party with people who know what they are about. Its leader had been an executive member of the PPP also, Mr. Ramchand. We won 7 seats. 27 26 and 7, 33 seats. The PPP won 32 seats in the parliament. Now, what is the answer? Can you think of any other country in the world where a president would have a minority and would not immediately begin to approach all the parties to ask if they would join in a coalition?
72:44GHmm.
72:47CThat did not happen in Guyana. And I’m saying it did not happen because of their sense that they have a right to rule. PPP, not their supporters. They have this right to rule. It’s a narrow clique that likes to control everything. You know, the news of corruption in Guyana is so stark that an executive member some months ago resigned from the party because he had written a public article in the party paper attacking corruption in the government. And he was hauled over the coals at an executive council meeting. His name is Mr. Ralph Rambram, who had been former speaker. He was hauled over the coals by the executive for attacking the party on corruption.
73:41CAnd because of what happened in the executive and what was said, none of us were present, he resigned from the party and is now silent. So the whole accusation of corruption and what I’m saying, the fact that I believe their failure to move in the direction of national unity is inspired mainly by the fact that they want to control all the millions, especially of foreign aid flowing through Guyana, and the heavy taxes and VAT and other, other revenues that they may be legitimately or otherwise collecting. I’m going into none of the other things that the public has been hearing about. I have not been there.
74:29CI speak of what I know. These are the results they gave out officially. Now, Starbuck News asked me for an interview, and I gave the interview. I said, “You know what this election is saying, so far as I’m concerned, is that the people have voted for a government of national unity. The people have given the leaders of Ghana an avenue, a red carpet on which to heal the country.” I said, “This is.” a moment for healing. What is the good? I mean, struggle is beautiful, but you don’t struggle for the sake of struggle. You don’t struggle to struggle, to continue struggle, to continue struggle, to continue struggle for the same justice that you began to struggle for since 1953.
75:22CIt is total madness. I have no patience. I do.
75:30GExcuse me, can we put that article up on the, uh, the Hulu website, the article that you wrote?
75:37CPlease do, please do. And there’s another section of it dealing with the, um, grassroots empowerment, which I will send to you also. I thought I had sent it to Uhuru, but perhaps not.
75:55GMaybe you did and I didn’t see it, but just in case, I would like to see if we can put it up.
76:03CI want that statement to have maximum publicity. I want the world to judge whether I am out of my mind, whether I am talking out of turn, Whether I am an enemy of the Guyanese people or what. Because what I am doing in that statement is saying, okay, Guyanese, you voted. This is how you voted. The president -- one party won the presidency, the other side won the parliament. Well, what are the people saying? You don’t expect the people to come up individually and tell you what to do. They have voted, and you must make sense of that vote. And the only logical sense that can be made of that vote is that you cannot have a one-party government.
76:57CThe dominant organization in the country is supposed to be the National Assembly. You cannot ignore the majority in the National Assembly in favor of a majority at the office of the president. Both need to be recognized, and the only way of recognizing both and recognizing this lip service we give to the right to vote and all of that is in a government of national unity. And whatever they want to do with it, if they want to unite it just to break it up, well, I have no part in it, and that is, that is the That is their talent. But the only logical sense can be made if you say you respect the vote of the people.
77:45CIf the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 says the will of the people shall be the basis of authority of government and it shall be expressed in periodic election, and you want to ignore that? Then let us tell the world why you are ignoring it. Don’t just ignore it. And I’m saying this to both government and opposition.
78:10EMm-hmm.
78:11CI have seen no inclination on either side. The only party -- and I have never belonged to the AFC. The party I’ve belonged to for the last, um, since 1974 is the Working People’s Alliance. I’m no longer active in it. But the only party that has made any public statement in this, of this tendency since the election that I have seen is the AFC. It said, Mr. Ramchitang said in response to the parliament’s address to parliament, to the president’s address to parliament, that he was disappointed that the parliament, the president had not gone in the, in the direction of a government of national unity. And when the president took the opposition to court for the way they composed the sectoral community -- sectoral committees of the National Assembly, they went to court and said -- the government went to court and said this was not in proportion, it was disproportionate, it was not in you know, in accordance with proportional representation. Mr. Nigel Liu says, what about proportionality in the executive? Those were the only 2 statements I have seen that have paid any respect to what the people did in November 2011. And I rest my case there.
79:47GAll right. Is, uh, I would like to say that you’ll be speaking in Toronto, coming to Toronto on September 27th, and you’ll be there until early October. And this will be put on our -- this broadcast will be archived so people can listen to it at any time. And I would like to thank you for your time because we went over Thank you for giving us this much time, and we would like to have you on again.
80:17COh, I apologize for my long-windedness. But you see, Guyana’s story is like snake story. As you say, Guyana is like dog story. You understand? It’s a little country with long story. Understand. Yeah, like that. And I am very glad. You see, let me say one thing more, if I may. And I’m speaking now to the British Broadcasting Corporation. I don’t know if they pick up stations like this.
80:52GYes.
80:54CI have not heard a discussion on World Have Your Say about Guyana since November 1911. It’s as if they can only go to a country when there is trouble, you know?
81:10GWhen some -- Famine, floods, or --
81:14CFamine, floods, riots, and so on.
81:17GGenocide.
81:18CYes. That’s the meat of their coverage. And in London, there was a shooting on the 16th of July when 3 protesting on some economic issues were shot by the police. And those were, I mean, those 3 were shot dead. And it’s very regrettable. And I want to say it was not a racial incident, so far as I can see from here. And I challenge anyone, if I am expert on anything in Guyana, it is on the question of race. I agree with you. That’s the only expertise I claim.
81:56GOkay.
81:59CBut it was not a racial incident. If you want to turn it into that, that’s another matter. It was not -- if they want it as a racial incident, then I will say, well, perhaps then it has something to do with the exclusion of the majority from the executive. Only in that way could it be remotely seen as a racial incident. But up to the time it happened, there was no, so far as I could smell, ethnic mobilization. And I hope it remains that way.
82:40GOkay, Mr. Kwanzaa brother, you see, we will see you in the whirlwind as as we like to say.
82:49CThank you very much. And we have been listening.
82:55GThank you. And we have been speaking with Eusi Kwayana, who’s coming to Toronto on September 27th. And we go now to John Coltrane’s acknowledgement. This is the birthday of John William Coltrane, is today. He was born on this day in 26th, John, will you go join me? And you are listening to Diasporic Music on Uhuru Radio. This is Jalali, AKA Norman Otis Richmond. And I’m Norman Otis Richmond. Speaking to you, we were speaking to you from the Great White North in Toronto, but right now we are spending a little time in Los Angeles, California. And we would like to thank UC Koyaanisqatsi. We would like to thank him for his analysis of Walter Rodney.
91:14GWe would also like to thank, or I would like to thank, can’t help to get away from that royal we business. I would like to thank Sandy Thompson for handling the technical aspects of the show today. And we are going to see you in the whirlwind. And also we are going to be playing an interview that I did a couple of weeks ago on KPFK on the Bill Gardner Show, Rhapsody in Black. And this is talking about my days with Eminem and the Peanuts and my vocal history. And this is Norman Otis Richmond, aka Jalali, saying we will see you in the whirlwind.
91:57CTake care of yourself.
91:58HI’m going to salute a Los Angeles label from the 1960s, Money Records. And one of the big hits on Money Records was Bettye Swan and Good Things Come to Those Who Wait.
92:09EGood things come to those who wait. But don’t wait too long. Good things come to those who wait. But don’t wait too long, because love is just a merry-go-round. Before you know it, your love will be gone. Now let me tell you a story. This girl met a guy one day. He said, girl, Just what I’m looking for. Please come my way. I don’t have much to offer, but what I do have you can get. But that foolish girl said, no, baby, ’cause you’re not the right one yet. She said, good things come a long ways away, but don’t wait too long. Good things come a long ways away.
93:08EBut don’t wait too long, because love is just a merry-go-round. Before you know it, your love will be gone. She said good things come to those who wait, so I think I’ll wait a little longer. For someone who has a little more money and whose love might be a little stronger. Now let me tell you people, here’s what I want you to see. This wasn’t just any girl, somehow it happened to be me. It’s been a long, long time since I met this guy, and my true love I haven’t found. And the one that I thought really loved me broke my heart and put me down.
93:54ESo listen to me, good things come a long way. But don’t wait too long. Good things, good things, good things gonna go away. But don’t wait too long because love is just a merry-go-round. Before you know it, oh yeah, your love will be gone. And I want to tell you now, Don’t wait too long. No, no, no, no, no. Don’t wait too long.
94:32ANo, no, no, no, no.
94:36HAh, Betty Swan. With me tonight is Mr. Norman Richmond, who was a singer, famous singer with Money Records back in the 1960s. Norm Richmond, welcome to Rhapsody in Black, man.
94:48DThank you. Thank you for inviting me.
94:51HYes, good. It’s good to see you. This time we’ll get a chance to play a lot more songs from, from your group. You were one of the singers on, on Money Records with the M&M’s and the Peanuts.
95:05DCorrect.
95:06HTell me a little.
95:07DM&M and the Peanuts began as Miller and Malone at, at Manual Arts High School and, uh, and Betty. Betty, uh, was, was, uh, one of the -- was Frank Miller’s wife, and they dropped out. And I was recruited by Willie Malone, and he lived on 95th, uh, 1940. I lived at 1920. He recruited me, and I recruited Tommy DeRoe. But at that particular time Pat White was -- he was going with Pat White and he recruited her. So we became M&M, really M&M and the Peanuts. But most of us went to Fremont. And, you know, Pat was going to Fremont and Tommy was going to Fremont. I thought Tommy, as you will hear, Tommy was one of the greatest singers that I, that I’ve ever heard.
96:04HYou know, the interesting thing about M&M and the Peanuts is You may have had a hit record in Los Angeles called the, uh, uh, the Philly, but a lot of your songs go back to the doo-wop of the earlier doo-wop, right?
96:17DWe’re very popular in, uh, among the, uh, Chicano, Chicano community.
96:22HWell, tell me a little bit about the first, uh, Peanut song we’re going to hear, Open Up Your Eyes.
96:28DWell, this song was written by, uh, you know, Willie Malone, but it was, uh, Pat and myself are singing background. I was a -- basically a background singer. And it’s led by Wooly Malone and Tommy Dorrell. And if you listen carefully to Tommy Dorrell, I mean, he could do Sam Cooke, James Brown. Uh, he was out of New Orleans. I mean, he was one of the greatest singers that I, that I have ever heard.
97:01AOpen up your eyes. Why don’t you open up your eyes so you can see how much your loving means to me? Yes, my dear, I want some loving from you. Yes, I do. Open up your eyes and you realize there is no one I’m trying to hide. Don’t want nobody. I want only you. You gave me your love and you’re sympathy. I was down, down, down on my knees. So my darling, oh, can’t you see how much your loving has given to me? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Open up your eyes and you realize There is no one I’m trying to hide. Don’t want nobody. I want only you. Yes, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
99:36HNorm Richmond, M&M and the Peanuts. I know you were popular at East LA.
99:40DOh yeah, we did a lot of Hunter Hancock record hops. We did the 54 Ballroom. We performed with Smokey Robinson and the Miracles and the Jeanette Hawkins. Yes, um, Brook Benton. And you know, we, we had a nice, a nice little run. We did a lot of Hunter Hunter Hancock Record Hops, uh, Jordan High School. We sang it a few times at Fremont, and we had a nice little, uh, nice little run.
100:09HEl Monte Legion Stadium.
100:11DAnd we did all of that, right?
100:14HAll right, we’re going to hear another one of the ballads, Eminem and the Peanuts. Uh, what are we going to hear next? I found --
100:21Dthis is I Found the Love, and this is a different lead singer. This is Clarence Beaver Armstrong. He used to go to Fremont And I remember seeing -- I sing -- we sing in the glee club together, and he was a great piano player. And I remember him singing -- used to bring the house down with You Never Walk Alone, the Roy Hamilton song. He could -- he was a great singer too, but he wasn’t a member of the group, but he filled in for, uh -- he wrote this song and he sang lead on this. But this is Pat White, Willie, myself, because by that time Tommy Dorot had Departed the group.
101:19AThe proof of love that really can be so true. A cry from my heart, an answer from you. Oh, please let me die. I know you need me. Oh, so please, please let me die. And no matter pain and anger, be my victim, ’cause I love you. I love you so. I love you so.
103:32HHere’s Don Julian and The Jerk. Tell us a little bit about Don.
103:38DWell, Don Julian used to sing with the Meadowlarks. He goes all the way back to the ’50s, and I think he was on the Dootsie Williams DuTone Records. And he put this together, put this group together with, uh, Ted Watkins and Charlie Morrison. And I think Ted went to Fremont and Don went to Fremont, and this is, uh, I think Mike had a few problems with Mr. Mayfield, Curtis Mayfield, ’cause this is very close to, you know, Curtis’s sound.
104:05HThat’s true.
104:06DAnd they straightened that out. And I think the Larks were the biggest group on Money Records, absolutely the biggest group.
104:50ASo, so, so, so everybody now. So, so, so if you don’t know how to do it, come on, gonna teach it to you. Doing the jerk. Hey, watch me work.
105:48HThere’s some connection to Curtis Mayfield there?
105:51DOh no, there was a -- if you listen to the larks on that particular song, uh, it’s very close to what Curtis Mayfield -- it was like, what was it, Fred Cash, Sam Gooden, and Curtis Mayfield. You had Don Julian and Ted Watkins and Charlie Morrison. And, uh, they were -- they patterned -- well, they really patterned themselves after the, uh, Impressions. And that was a, that was a big record.
106:12HEarly 1965, man.
106:14DThat was the record. Yeah, Don Julian was, uh, he was a -- I guess I would say he was a consummate group man in -- I mean, you know, we know Jesse Belvin as a, you know, solo artist, but he did a lot of groups. But Don Julian did, you know, a lot of soundtracks. He did -- he had group after group after group.
106:33HAnd also he kept alive rhythm and blues in Los Angeles for a long time with his band and just, just on his wits alone, you know. We owe a lot to Don Julian.
106:44DYou’re right, he started out with the Meadowlarks.
106:46HThat’s right, on DuTone Records. Tell us a little bit about this next song. It was never really -- on the thing it says it was never really released, but it’s a great song by M&M and the Peanuts.
106:58DWell, it was, uh, another composition by Willie Malone. And Willie was a principal writer and basically the leader. He put every -- most of, most of the stuff together, like, uh, he and Pat. Like I say, I was brought in as a, uh, just a utility man, you know. I, I sing, uh, rare, rare, rare leads. But, you know, Uh-huh. I got -- when I left Los Angeles, I think I became a much better singer. But, you know, I always love -- my forte is I love to sing first tenor, just to be on the top. That’s my -- that’s where I’m at home.
107:33HWhat is Norman Richmond doing these days?
107:36DWell, I’m in Toronto. I write occasionally because, I mean, you know, the newspaper business is really down. So I’m doing a lot of writing on internet, and I do a radio show on Regent Radio. Uh, you can go to Regent Radio -- or pardon me, Radio Regent. We used to be CKLN. I do like a news form, a spoken word show basically. It’s, you know, news.
108:01HIt’s on the internet, huh?
108:02DIt’s on the internet.
108:03HHow can we get it?
108:04DGo to www.radiorigent.com. Then I also do a music show called, uh, Diasporic Music, and it’s on Uhuru Radio. That’s www. Uhuru, uh, you, uh, you, uh, uhu, r-u, radio.com. Uhuru means freedom, freedom in Swahili. I hope I spelled it right. I’m tripping. But, uh, I do a lot of music there, and I interview -- I’ve interviewed L.C. Cook, and the first show I ever did was a special on Jesse Belvin, and I did all of Los Angeles, you know. Oh yeah, uh, H.B. Barnum, the whole, the whole, you know. Uh, Gloria, uh, what’s her name, Brynn Holloway.
108:46HThis man is in Toronto, Canada playing all this great music. That --
108:52DSo that’s -- but that’s basically -- and, you know, I write from time to time, and I’m putting together a book called, uh, In the Whirlwind. It’s, uh, musical notes from the whirlwind. I have, uh -- it may be an ebook, and, you know, but, uh, most of the articles that I have written started -- started writing in you know, the early ’70s. And I’ve basically -- I’ve interviewed -- name them and I probably interviewed them.
109:20HThere’s Nothing I Wouldn’t Do is from what time period about?
109:23DOh, this is ’66, ’65.
109:27HOkay, well, let’s listen to Eminem and the Peanuts.
109:30DLet’s do that.
109:38AI’ll tell all the leaves along the trees to whisper I love you. I’ll count all the stars in heaven above to prove my love is true. Darling, can’t you see my love will always be yours, darling? I love you.
110:07DOoh.
110:09ATake the glow of the sun, place it in your care. Darling, wherever you are, you know that I’ll be there. ’Cause love is just a game, but my love will never Oh darling, I love you. I climbed the mountain so high just to be by your side. To the eye and you wonder why. Little Valley, oh yeah, Little Valley, yeah. Oh yeah, Little Valley, yeah. Where they’re not too big and they’re not too small, they like to give and that ain’t all. You might think they’re I looked to the sea, it wasn’t Little Valley there to fight on me. I turned around and I looked again, there was Little Valley coming like the wind. Little Valley, yeah, yeah, yeah. Little Valley, yeah, yeah, Little Valley, yeah. Well, I took my bag and I closed the door. I’m never going back to Little Valley no more. I was looking at the sunset and I was in a wreck. I thought that Little Valley had a broken mind. Little Valley, you better -- well, yeah, Little Valley, you better --
114:39HM&M and the Peanuts on 90.7 FM KPFK.
114:43DYeah, and that is Willie singing bass and Tommy DeRoe, but you know, that’s basically, uh, Tommy DeRoe singing lead. But that’s basically, you know, about the street organizations that were, that were on the ground at that time. You had the businessmen from Jeff and the Slausons from Fremont and the Gladiators from Manual Arts where Willie went to. So that is, he wrote that song. So he, he’s basically talking about some of the stuff that used to take place in Los Angeles. I guess maybe it still does under a different name.
115:11HBut -- Well, Norm, before we get into the big hit of Eminem and the Peanuts, I want you to hear a little bit of this next song and tell me your impressions, okay?
115:21AHaven’t you heard about the guy known as the cheater?
115:35CHe’ll take your girl and then he’ll lie and he’ll mistreat her.
115:41HI told you I had something for you.
115:42DHe sounds like a soulful European guy.
115:49HThat’s a big hit from 1966 called The Cheater, and I’ve always thought that they stole this song from --
115:58DThe whole background, the whole thing. The soundtrack sounds like The instrumentation and -- yeah. Did you ever hear that? I’ve heard that, yeah, yeah.
116:14HOkay, all right.
116:15DWhere are they from?
116:16HThey’re from -- I, I don’t know, but it was a big hit in 1966, so they probably -- they were listening to Buddy Records.
116:25DWillie Malone’s estate should go after them.
116:30HIn any case, tell me a little bit about Tell us about The Philly. I remember doing a dance called like the Philly Dog to this tune in early 1965.
116:39DWell, The Philly was, it was played on American Bandstand. I remember we didn’t go on American Bandstand, but it was played and it got a high record, a high rating. But it was a, it was a dance that we did, you know. We had little routines and, you know, we had a little, you know, those little silk, those little cheap suits that you used to wear in the ’60s. And, uh, we made a cover of a couple of magazines, Teen Elegant, and, you know, I think Marvin Gaye was on one side of the COVID and, uh, we were on the other side. But yeah, the Philly was a -- it was, it was a, it was, it was a big dance. I think people did it across the country as well.
117:16HThat’s true.
117:17DBut The Jerk, well, like I say, The Jerk was the quintessential, probably, probably the biggest record on, on, uh, on Money Records.
117:25HBut Money Records had a big run about that, about that time with your song and And The Jerk and Betty Swann.
117:31DAnd Betty Swann, right, right. I think we were the -- we were -- those 3 artists were -- probably had the biggest impact.
117:36HWell, let’s listen to your song and then, uh, Betty Swann’s big hit, Make Me Yours. Okay.
117:58AOh, there’s a dance. There’s a dance. You know that it’s made for romance. For romance. You’ve got to get with it in order to get it. First you put your hands on your hips. And the dance. Then you clap your hands in one motion. In one motion. You got to get a notion. Clap hands in one motion.
118:55HHey!
118:55AEverybody!
118:57DCome and get this dance!
119:12AYou can do it, you can do it. Oh, there’s a dance, there’s a dance, you know, that’s made for a man girl.
