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0:00And what do you think about like the overall situation here in Nigeria like economically? Yeah, I think it’s a whole lot of wahala here. Yeah, wahala that’s local what we call it. Yeah, I think the Nigerian system is sometimes [bleeped] up. We Nigerians get used to like adapting to every situation. Yeah. What’s up everybody? I’m Maceo. Welcome to another episode of We Them Media. In this past summer I traveled to Africa for the first time. Specifically to Lagos and Abuja, Nigeria. This journey is all about connecting with the incredible members of our We Them Media community and deepening our partnership with Creative Alchemy, a community deeply
0:34aligned with our vision to bring artists, Nigerian communities, and African communities broadly on chain. So Maceo Whatley, it’s nice to nice to meet you all. I’m the host of the We Them Media podcast. It’s a podcast I’ve been doing to document people of color in the crypto space, interact with artists, do cultural and technological journalism, you know, help people know you know where the world is at and where it’s going. And I’ve been building a community. This is going to be a community owned and managed podcast and I’m here with one of my community members, one of my earliest community members actually, Joshua Asika. And so
1:13I’m super pumped to be here with you. Yeah, I’m honored. Yeah, I’m Joshua Asika too by name. I’m from Taraba State, Jalingo. I’m in Wamba, I think. Um mostly I’m a member of the We Them Media. A strong member of the community. Yeah, I’m I’m also glad to be in the podcast with you. Like meeting you for the first time, it’s a it’s a great honor. Yeah, I feel blessed. Yeah, I feel blessed. I feel like it’s crazy that I can’t even be here, you know, and my We Them Media podcast taking me, you know, across the world. I’m the first person in my family to return to
1:43Africa, which is a crazy thing to realize. I think I realized that after I even planned to come. And it’s special to meet people who have been so consistent in showing up for my community calls, you know, on Discord and stuff like that. It’s a I think a blessing to to have people like you all that are that are interested in what I’m doing And they believe in me and what I’m doing type of thing. You know, I’ve definitely experienced some uncertainty which I’m sure you can relate to as an artist. So, I love to hear about, you know, how you got into it into rapping
2:06and making music. I think I started writing my raps 2011. 2011 to 2012. Though, I didn’t record the music. Though, but my first single was around that 2014. Yeah, I go to the studio then. That was when I got my first track. Yeah. What was your first track? Yeah, it was a collab with my bro. Yeah, it’s called Success is the title of the song. Yeah. And and what inspired you to start making music? And there’s this movie actually love doing music, you know, but what actually inspired me is the the Let It Shine movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:40Yeah, the Truth and the Cyrus. Mhm. Yeah, I think you know about the movie, right? Yeah, the Let It Shine movie. Yeah, that that was the movie that actually inspired me a lot to do to do the rap stuff and everything. That’s cool. I think that’s dope. I remember seeing that. Yeah, no worries. Uh Dan’s off doing his errands. But, I think that’s dope. You know, I think that was actually one of my favorite Disney Channel movies too myself. My dad actually watched it for the first time during the pandemic. I was like, “Oh, look at this guy watching the classics.” I think that’s dope. What about that
3:07movie made you feel you needed to make music? Yeah, made me feel like made me feel more inspired. Like, I see the way and [bleeped] are rapping, the competition in the movie, like the dance performance. The rap battle. Yeah, the rap battle. I feel I need to start rapping though because I love doing it. And that was when I start like let me put in something and I see yeah, I’m rapping. Makes sense. And who I guess like once you started rapping, what was your process like? You create a process? Yeah, create a process. I start writing the lyrics of the the song understanding the rap game, how to put in some rhymes
3:37and all that. So, that was when I said, “Okay, this is how I do my this is how I put in.” And I don’t try to record the first song. I see yeah, it’s a little bit awkward like that though. I didn’t give up. I said, “Okay, let me put in more effort in writing my lyrics and stuff.” I mean, I think that’s beautiful. And I’m also curious to like as you’ve been pursuing your craft, like I said, like you all showed up to my community calls for example. It makes me feel you all believe in what I’m doing and are excited about it. I’m really
3:59curious like who have been the people showing up and supporting you, especially like at home in Taraba state. Yeah, I actually got a lot of support from where I’m coming from, in Taraba state, Jalingo. Like in my neighborhood, the [bleeped] there like the guys, my friends, everybody like shows their support anytime I drop music. Yeah, that was what like inspired me a lot. Their support is massive, for real. If I drop any song, try to vibe to it, you hear me? Yeah, and that’s what keeps me going. And who are some of the like your peers making music at home in Taraba state, Jalingo? Yeah, I have a couple of
4:26friends, a couple of people I know that they they rap and they sing, too. So, shout them out. Shout them out. You said your first song was a collab. Who was that with? Okay, it was with my bro, Flash Bling. The second they call him Courtman. Yeah, we were three on the track. Uh-huh. And how did you all get to know each other? It’s just like um we’re in the same neighborhood. Yeah, so everybody’s interested in the music stuff, so we decide to come together up based on the funds rising and stuff, the money yet to record. So, we just contribute like you bring a half
4:50amount, me bring a half amount, yeah, then so we have to record. That makes sense. And so, you guys doing it together made it cheaper to to even just execute on the
4:57Yeah, the expenses is less for each and every one of us. And how how how much is it like would you say to go and record a song, create a song overall in Naira, it’s fine. Then, it’s like 3,000 Naira. Yeah, so we have to split it between three of us. Mhm. And right now, so this is like July 20 It’s like July 25th. Looking at like the peer-to-peer exchange rate, like 1,500 Naira is is around like $1. So, that’s like around $6 USD. And I think that’s important for people to understand cuz I think people don’t understand how far, you know, $2 can go in supporting creatives in this
5:25environment. Mhm. But, I think it’s cool to to see that like for you, like like what is that like in like a day’s work? How much work is that, you know, to get like 3,000 Naira to be able to put that together? Let me say because of how the country is, it’s kind of like hard to raise money at this moment to record a song. Yeah, you have to like do more now to get money to record a song. But, if it was then, it’s kind of like um less pressure on it. But, now you have to work more because even production and all that is costly. I think the
5:48production now is a double time than that. Twice as much as it used to be? Yeah. You can You can record for 20,000 right now. Yeah, but then you can record for 10,000, 5,000. It depends. Yeah.
5:57But yeah, now I’m 20,000 above. So, the inflation’s made it a lot harder to be like an artist, recording artist. Yeah. And what do you think about like the overall situation here in Nigeria like economically? Yeah, I think Is there a whole lot of wahala here though? Yeah, wahala. That’s what we call what we call it. Yeah, I think the Nigerian system is sometimes hard to cope with. We Nigerians get used to adapt into every situation. Yeah. So, I think we Nigerians can cope with anything based on this from the government. Yeah, we don’t have anything to say. Sometimes we do protest for like the high exchange
6:27rate stuff like the fuel, the gas and all that. But it doesn’t work. It depends on the government. So, we have to like adapt to do what we want to do. Life goes on, you know. Mhm. And do you feel like there’s anything people can do about some of these problems? Yeah, I think in Nigeria it’s all about the government, you know. And you as an individual or people don’t have to say. It’s all about the government. They decide and they do what they want to do. So, yeah. And do you feel like that inspires the kind of music you want to make at all?
6:51Yeah, it inspires a lot because, you know, the hardship and all that. You have to like put it in the songs and you know, sometimes when things get harder you you get more inspiration. Like you have to speak your mind. Sometimes go to the studio, say what you’re going through, the whole stuff. That’s how it is. That makes a lot of sense. And so, what are some of the things that you like to rap about? You said your first song was called success. Since then, what are some of the songs that you’ve made and like what’s been a theme that you would say? Yeah, I
7:14actually like to rap about my myself like things I’m going through, my family and I actually like to rap about things I see around. So, that’s what inspired me to write. But most importantly, I like to rap about myself. And yes, how would you say like your your perspective on yourself and the world around you has evolved through your like time being an artist? And how old are you? Yeah, I’m 24. I think there’s progress in my music career. I feel there’s a lot I need to do, but at this point here I think I’ve come a I’m a way. Yeah, and it’s been years I’ve been pushing, I’ve been
7:42writing and I feel blessed for the little I have and hopefully I hope for a bigger picture of me as a rapper and musician. And what would you say are your goals right now as a musician and rapper? My goal is to for people around me to to focus on my sound. I actually need anybody vibing to my song to feel me, you understand? Like I actually want a situation whereby anybody that come across my music or stuff will feel inspired by the music and like get what I’m trying to say in my song. I see. So you’re saying you’re really trying to build work with having
8:10a relationship with your audience through your music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And do you feel like there’s other artists that you admire that have been able to cultivate that that you look up to or want to emulate? Yeah, in the Afrobeat side I actually look up to Wizkid. I think that’s my idol. I love his music a lot since I was a little kid. How did you first get introduced to Wizkid? From his old songs. Who was playing them? How did you hear them? From the radio. Yeah, actually I was driving to his first single Holla at Your Boy and stuff. Yeah, I [bleeped] with that sound. So I get
8:35to like listen to more of his sounds and [bleeped] with him a lot. Yeah. And now I guess even looking beyond the Afrobeat too, are there other artists that you admire? Yeah, there’s Davido, Burna Boy, Rema, Asake. I actually admire those artists a lot. And out of those artists, do you feel like they’re making an effort to make a difference here in Nigeria? Yeah, of course. Who do you feel like like makes that effort like the most?
8:56Like apart from Wizkid, you know, then Burna Boy, Davido. They all took the Afrobeat worldwide, you know, across the world. Rema is is a superstar right now. She’s making waves all over the world. Yeah. I like that. I like that. And I guess I’m curious like what what’s your experience been being a community member of the Wisdom [bleeped] Do you feel like we’ve added value to what you’re up to and like how would you say so? Yeah, I feel like there’s a lot to the Wisdom [bleeped] It’s a small community like we’re communal. But I feel the support from the community is it’s amazing. Like
9:23sometimes you do say we should drop a link of our song, we drop it to our gear. I actually dropped one or two tracks and I feel like there’s one or two people that give a comment, you know. It makes sense to me, you know. One or two support from the community means a lot as an artist. No matter how it doesn’t matter the amount of people that you get from where you are means a lot. Mhm. Yeah, and I feel welcome in the in the community, you know. Yeah. I appreciate that. And so, as you’ve been working on your music, what do you feel like you
9:49want to do, I guess, in terms of like do you want to stay in Taraba State, Jalingo? No, actually I don’t want to stay. You know, sometimes they usually say you have to leave your comfort zone so to get what you want. Yeah, but it’s not really about leaving the comfort zone, it’s about Okay, I’m about to leave my comfort zone, but what am I going to do? You know, in the music aspect because in your comfort zone things used to be like less expensive like the things you do, you know more of people around there that can support you. But, when you leave your comfort
10:14zone, it’s not going to be that easy, you know. Yeah, so I I’m still pushing from my comfort zone, but I hope one day I could like go out to meet some new people, make new music and stuff. And do you want to move beyond Nigeria? Yeah, I want to go global, you know. I want to move. I want people to get my sound, to pop on my sound. I’m not just singing for for Taraba State people, I’m singing for people globally all over the world like to pop on my sound. Yeah. I hear that. How do you feel though like the Taraba State culture,
10:42Jalingo culture like influences the music you make? Yeah, Jalingo culture apart from like the friends you have and the people around you, there’s no support like the music stuff is crazy. Sometimes in Jalingo like let me say in the northern part, if you want to sing as a as a boy, as a child, the parents and and people around you will like discourage you, tell you that “Ah, no, why why do you want to sing? Go to school.” They’ll say like you can’t succeed through music. They’ll focus like in the educational aspect and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that’s how they feel, you know. Yeah. And so, how do your parents
11:14respond to you doing music? How was that man? You have a pastor, no? Yeah, he’s a pastor, but I I can’t lie seriously, my dad have been supportive. My mom has been supportive. They love That that’s what kept me going, you know, getting support from my family. Yeah. That’s the only thing that kept me going. Mhm. Yeah. And talking a little bit about your family and everything, what is life like in Taraba State for your family? Uh it’s not easy, you know, for my family I people are always like try to try to make a means for for the children like for us. Actually, I think if if I could
11:42come again in in another world I could choose my family, you know, because they have been supportive to me. Yeah, no matter what my dad would say, “Boy, just keep going.” “Do this. Do this. Keep going.” My dad have been driving to my to my songs. They have been supportive. And I’m really grateful to to have them as my parent as my family, my brothers, and my sisters. Everybody support me and they [bleeped] with my [bleeped] Yeah. And how old are your siblings? Uh I think my bigger bro is 27. Then I’m 24. Then I have a younger bro. He’s 22. Yeah, 22. Then my junior sister
12:15is about I don’t know what to say. She’s 12 or 13. Yeah, I think. And so how do you feel being a big brother? Yeah, I feel a little bit more pressure because at this point in my family I think it’s just like I’m the eye of the family, you know. Most of times I feel a little bit pressure because the support comes from me to them. So I feel like I should do more for my family. As a big bro you have to like you have I have a younger bro, younger sister which I have to like sometimes yeah do some things for them. How do you feel
12:47like that shows up? Like what kind of things do you feel you have to do for them? And what is that How does that pressure make you feel? Like the responsibility I have actually keeps me going like to do more. Even when I’m awake I can’t like just sit and look at my sisters and my brother going through like through stuff when I’m their big bro. You understand? So I I actually feel like I should do more so that if by any means they need something I should be of support. And that energy and that responsibility I always feel I have makes me to do more and make me to push
13:13myself more harder. Mhm. That makes sense. I I thought about that. I think that’s I think that’s beautiful that you take such a stand for your siblings, for your family. Yeah. Um in terms of finding funding for your creative career, where have you been sourcing that funding from? How’s that been? Yeah, like I told you I’ve been chasing that I look at drops and stuff. And sometimes I I used to walk I have a small piggery. Yeah, I used to sell them sometimes and use part of the money to record and buy feeds for the pigs and all and everything. Yeah. Style.
13:38Fashion killer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the clothes and stuff. Yeah. That does make sense. And like you’ve been a contributing community member to We Them Media. How do you feel like the opportunity to contribute to our community, to our project? Like what have you learned and how has it been like having that opportunity to make that money? Yeah, I feel like the We Them Media has helped me with time and to create a way for we upcoming artists to understand the craft very well. Like an upcoming artist, I think the crypto space is all about the web three the the crypto space. So I feel sometimes we talk about
14:10I mention my music stuff and all that. I feel like with time they’ll get to mention stuff with the community members supportive and all that. I think they’ll [bleeped] with my stuff my sound there. I think it’s a great honor to be part of the We Them Media because I feel support coming in and here from from people around here and I feel welcome. I like to hear that. What do you feel like What do you think we should take We Them Media We Them Media? Like what do you think like having been here? Like you’re one of my earliest community members, right? Like what’s your perspective on what I’ve been building and what we can do with
14:38it? Yeah, I think we can do a lot when we all discover our goals like if everyone have a role to play in the community and we have a main focus like this what we want to achieve as a team. I think that makes sense and that will mean a lot for the for the community. Let us know what we’re doing and how we can come together as a team to do all the two things to make the the community look forward. I was just saying so what do you think are some of your immediate goals right now as an artist? Yeah, I just want to like build
15:04my page, share my stuff as an upcoming artist with We Them Media though get to to listen, put in my songs on internet and Spotify, Apple and all these other platforms, you know. Well, I appreciate you sharing a little bit about your story about your journey. Are there any questions you want to ask me? No, that’s all I have. I appreciate that. Well, anything you want to share with my audience as we wrap up the interview? Yeah, um, a little to share. I want to share a little stuff for the audience like for We The [bleeped] and for people around. I’m on the communities and the field, we
15:33should keep pushing no matter where you’re coming from and we should support the We Them Media team because there’s a lot they’re building and I believe they’re building a momentum as a team, you know, we have something great coming. I know it takes time but definitely they’re heading somewhere. Keep supporting each other and stuff. I think that’s all I have to say. Just keep pushing. Do your thing, bro. Well, thank you everybody for listening to this interview on We The [bleeped] It’s beautiful to finally have you on the podcast. Joshua and I actually did an interview a while ago, like sometime last year and the audio wasn’t very good
16:01so I didn’t end up uploading it but I’m super blessed, you know, to finally be able to make my way here to do an in-person interview with you, with Daniel, with Jed, with the creative alchemy community. I’m so excited for this event on Friday. Are you excited for the event on Friday? Yeah, I’m excited. But Don said he want one of us to perform and I feel like that would be great, you know. I’m excited for Friday too for the for the meeting and all that. I like that. And do you feel like you’ve been learning more about Web3 through hanging out with us? Yeah, I feel I’ve
16:27been hearing more, I’ve been listening, I’ve been learning and it’s great, you know, to know more about what you don’t know. That’s that’s how it is. It’s always a game. Yeah, everybody, thank you for tuning in to this episode. It’s a special episode, um, for me to have been building this community for just over, I guess, a year, a year and a half now almost. Um, it’s it’s such a blessing to have people that are still here, you know, 2 years after we connected here in this creative world. I just feel so blessed so thank you for tuning in and uh I hope you have a
16:56blessed and beautiful day. Free Palestine. Free the Congo. Mhm. Thank you. I say good yeah, exactly.
