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0:00Last week in Lagos, is that how you say it? Lagos? Which one? Lagos. Lagos. Yeah. I haven’t gotten that one completely correct yet, but it’s coming. Lagos. And I’m curious, we went to Okoroju.
0:15Sound.xyz, I use Sound.xyz a lot as well. I actually started off using Manifold. Yeah, that’s how I minted my first song ever. and I think my first two songs on Web3 and then I dabbled into like my Descent and then Sounder XYZ. I think those are the only three platforms that I’ve used so far, you know. What’s up everybody, I’m Maceo. Welcome to another episode of We Them Niggas. In this past summer I traveled to Africa for the first time, specifically to Lagos and Abuja, Nigeria. This journey was all about connecting with the incredible members of our We Them Media community in deepening our partnership with Creative Alchemy, a community deeply aligned with our mission to bring artists, Nigerian communities, and African communities broadly on-chain.
1:00I’m back again with another episode of Leave Them Niggas. Second to last interview planned of my trip to ABJ, my whole trip to Nigeria, my first time in West Africa. It’s been a spectacular time. From the moment I arrived, I’m pretty much with this guy. I arrived to him and Ngozi playing Achake in Central Sea, Wave. Make nobody stress me, I’m on your way right now
1:30On loop, because he knows I’m a Central C fan I didn’t know how to feel at first, being welcome to a song on loop I said, this guy doesn’t know how to receive me, huh? But since then, I feel like you put me on to so many different songs, so many different artists You made sure that I’ve been safe on this trip That I’ve been fed That I’ve been presentable, per se, even And that I’ve been conscientious about where I take my camera and how I use it So I appreciate all those things I’m doing this follow-up interview on our first interview to ask you a bit about how the overall trip has been. The first interview was really about your music and where you’re at. This is more about, you know, your experience as a community member, being here in this house, being here with me for these two weeks. I know you weren’t necessarily sure how you were going to be receiving me. And so I’m curious, like, how are you today, first and foremost?
2:11I am doing great, as always. You know, I feel like every day, every day one has life is a good day. Being around you makes it even better. So I can say it’s been a great day, bro. Likewise, brother, likewise And how has the overall trip been for you? I feel like you’ve said a number of times that this has kind of shifted where you’re at energetically Yeah, the whole trip has been, it’s been amazing I think amazing is the one word to sum it all up And it’s, yeah, it’s also been like a huge shift for me, like mentally You know, being around a lot of creatives and like-minded individuals
2:52It’s always, it’s always a good thing, you know, like for once mental health, I don’t get to hang out with people so much, but it’s like, I feel like, you know, I let myself out of, you know, like that, out of my, I’ll say out of my cubicle and just being around a lot of creative minds and, you know, like a lot of intelligent people as giving me a different insight on life and even like how to Relate More With People, so I feel like it’s been a great trip, it’s been a great trip, like having to show you places, I didn’t know I was like a tourist onto this trip, sorry, like a tour guide onto this trip, and so it’s just been a different experience for me, it’s like nothing I’ve done before, I don’t think I ever received someone, like received a guest, but I think it was pretty nice, and you’ve been a great guest.
3:51Yes, so far, man. Like, seeing you also, like, I feel like you’ve enjoyed your stay here. Definitely, right. Like, seeing you explore and just be yourself, like, trying out new things. I mean, it’s a beautiful thing to see. And also getting to learn, like, your perspectives on, like, you know, the issues and the concerns of this country is also very insightful. So, overall, it’s been an amazing and very educational time and trip for me So, yeah And I guess when you say, like, my perspective on, like, some of the challenges facing this country Which things are you thinking of most specifically? But we have talked about that a good amount, that’s true
4:31Yeah, I think you’ve hammered a lot more on, like, the inflation And, like, having never seen inflation, like, from this perspective, right? Yeah, America Yeah, having you witness it firsthand and just know how an average man lives. I think you’ve also mentioned that a lot. The common man can get on a plane, so why don’t we just get on a bus and go to Abuja? I never used to think like that, but seeing this guy coming from the States and want to have this experience, it’s like, okay, why not? Let’s do it. and I feel like that was part of the highlight of the trip for me because it’s something that even I that live here never tried before so it’s like it was a fun experience just trying it with like friends or I would say brothers and we made it safe here. We’ve been having fun here. So yeah.
5:25I’m curious what have been like some highlight moments for you like seeing me come and explore like you have been my tour guide but also just like like I don’t know how to get anywhere I’m like how are we gonna get there you’re like oh no Maceo don’t pay hundreds of dollars to go see Badagree? Yeah. I’ve been trying to say that right for a week and a half. Yeah, you said that right. That definitely made me feel good. Because when you told me like, yo, I don’t think I’ll be able to go with anyone to this trip, I feel like you felt like you wanted to go there alone.
5:54And that made me wonder, like, if he’s saying he wants to go there alone, that means because he can’t afford to pay for two people, then that must be a lot of money, you know? so like getting to figure out it was about $300 and I think we spent less than $100 all three of us like that was well worth it and that was that was that was also like not that moment but like that trip the visit to like the the land of no return and the whole slave museum I feel like was one of the trips that I really wanted you like I was one of the places I really wanted you to visit
6:33because that has a lot to do with your heritage, your origin as a black man, so I felt like that was kind of significant and I’m glad that we did end back on that trip because at some point it felt like we weren’t going to go. But then we just woke up Sunday morning and we were like, okay, let’s end back on this trip. It was church or my heritage. I don’t think it’s going to be church. Maybe next time. Yes, like it happened, I’m sure you, you know, you learned stuff, you saw, you saw things, you know, with your own eyes, like things that had been preserved from like hundreds of years. And I feel like it’s history is, is always like, is an important thing in life, right? Like, I feel like it’s something that most people do not pay attention to. It’s like, because if you don’t know your history, it’s going to be a lot difficult to,
7:29to make a change or even like know how to navigate you know towards making a change I see you as a pioneer and as an ambassador for change so I feel like that was that was important for me to like you know go show you that side of the country and pretty much all the places we visited like every I think every single moment that we’ve spent together has been has been Significant. So I can’t really say this is the highlight of the trip, but that, you know, like every single moment has mattered. It’s been, it’s been an amazing experience, like I said earlier, bro, like super, super amazing. And I guess last week in Lagos, is that how you say it? Lagos? Which one? Lagos. Lagos. Yeah. I haven’t gotten that one completely correct yet, but it’s coming. Lagos. And I’m curious, we went to Okoroju, Ikoroju. Ikoroju, yeah. Oh, you’re really, you’re catching up real fast now.
8:29Yeah, I like that And I’m curious, like, what you thought of that trip to Ikoro? I know the ferry was trying at times, I was sitting up there getting wet in the face, but I was like, oh, this is kind of cool, I’m in, like, a little speedboat, going to meet the bridge guy, Daddy Ayo, Ethereum Yeah, so that was our first speedboat trip, huh? Yeah yeah it was amazing it was it was great like um man i i that that was one of like the most um informative trips and like um uh inspiring trips to me because i had never seen anything prior to like when we visited uh the web3 um bridge or hub right like it’s so crazy to see that
9:12Someone cares enough to want to educate other people, right? Like people that probably do not have access to materials, but have interest in learning these things. So like he’s been able to like fill that gap in his community. And by doing that, you know, we heard it from him and saw, you know, with our eyes, He’s empowering a lot of youths that would have been maybe on the streets committing crimes and doing anything to make money But now they’re learning ethical ways to make money, take care of themselves, take care of their family And also be of value to the community, you know So it’s like, it’s just been so amazing to see, man
10:02Shout out to Ayodeji, that’s his name, right? He’s a super, super amazing man, man just for caring enough and he made me realize something. We as Nigerians often times address the problems that we face more than even talking about possible solutions. He’s someone that has proved that we need to do more than we talk about the things that are going on here. Because if change is ever going to come then we need to stop focusing on the problems and Thinking of Solutions to the Problems like that’s that that’s the only thing that’s ever really going to make a difference So seeing him you know I’ll be an ambassador of that like it’s giving me a whole
10:51It’s it’s giving me a complete mind shift on like how I want to approach the problems here in my society, you know so I Was really inspired by seeing the web three bridge hub like super miss super super amazing thing that man’s doing No, I definitely think so. I feel like I haven’t seen a lot of black people in this space really operating as founders, I would say. You know, I think there’s a lot of developers and a lot maybe isn’t even like correct. You know, there’s some developers. I think there’s some people like working in D.C. There’s some people doing like different roles, law, stuff like that in Web3 space. But I really can’t say that, you know, I can name 10 founders, you know, let alone 10 people working on trying to build schools to bring more black people into the space. So I really thought that was beautiful.
11:36I was like, dang, like, you know, it’s incredible you’ve been able to get funding from the Ethereum Foundation, it’s incredible you’ve been able to get backing from, you know, the powers that be in this ecosystem to recognize you as someone that’s trying to build value for black people in Africa. Like, I think that’s like, it says a lot about, like, the Web3 ecosystem that they support him in the first place, but even more about him that he’s been doing that for five years working towards, like, a future where this is a tech hub of Africa. I think that’s so beautiful and so inspiring. You mentioned that, you know, his perspective on how we can start to address issues by being the solutions
12:07Inspired, you know, I’m curious what kinds of issues you’re thinking about addressing I know over the past two weeks you’ve talked a lot about how your mindset as an artist has shifted To think about what you’re perpetuating and pushing into the youth But what kinds of issues do you want to address? Yeah, so I feel like first off, the best weapon that I have at my disposal right now is my voice, is my music I Feel Like Music Has Played A Huge Role In Like The Society Like Over The Years Bro Cause No Matter How No Matter Who You Are I Feel Like At Some Point You’ve Consumed Some Music In Your Life You Know And Not Knowingly Unknowingly You Know It Must Have Inspired Some Certain Things Some Certain Decisions That You’ve Made In Life So It’s Like I Feel Like I Feel Right Now More Of Like A Messenger
12:56And I want to really focus on the kind of messages that I put out there through my music Like someone listens to my music, like what does it inspire in them, you know So it’s like I’m trying, I want to try to like, you know, make conscious music Music that makes people reflect on the decisions that they make We can probably, you know, just do away with a lot of things that have been, that have been, what’s the word, what’s the word, imposed as normal, you know, made societal norms, but actually aren’t, like, you know, the right things to do, you know, like, I feel like we just, people, a lot of music I hear is just about, like, you know, vibes, vibes, we keep vibing, but how long are we going to keep vibing when there are actual, you know, problems that we need,
13:48to be solving, you know, issues that people need to be aware of, you know, so it’s like I’ve taken that upon myself and I have a lot of plans long term. I was talking to you earlier on this evening, like, you know, like Ebenezer, I realize is not just an artist, you know, it’s going to be like the modern company of everything that Ebenezer is, you know, Jed is Ebenezer, you know, like a lot of other things that I want to branch into. But most importantly, Ebenezer means a stone of help. So I feel like I want to live up to that name. I want to be able to help people, you know, facilitate
14:32and like assist them in any way I can. I mean, hunger is one of the issues that people face out here. Over the years, I want to build like food banks where people can just wake up and Go get food and eat without having to pay anything, you know, like that’s that’s like one of the things that one of the things that I have in mind regarding that and like do a lot of charity work and yeah, just support people in any way I can, you know, like that’s that’s that’s just that’s just what I’m what I’m thinking. That’s my thought process on like, you know, how to instill change in my community in your country.
15:08I know I got that. And I guess dialing back from that and more so into the Web3 space, how have these two weeks shifted how you want to approach your role in that space and the kinds of opportunities that you pursue and the things that you’re working on in that space? You’ve been an artist in the past, but I’ve heard you also talk about DeFi over the past two weeks. I’ve heard you talk about meme coins. I’ve heard you talk about building platforms and what platforms you like and why and what innovation you even don’t see happening. I’m curious, if you’re thinking around that whole space evolved.
15:36Yo, so I feel like I have, so I consider myself an explorer, you know, like I love to explore a lot and I feel like I’ve explored Web3 to an extent where like you said, you know, like I went from just the music side of it to like NFTs, flipping NFTs, buying NFTs to be in certain communities, you know, to like memes and like everything that I’ve been able to I’ve been able to lay my hands on, I’ve dabbled into them to understand how they work and how I can leverage them to my advantage and I realized to an extent it kind of took away from how I interacted with my community, my music community which is my main community and right now I want to put more focus on that side because I feel like that’s how I got into the whole DeFi space and that side of DeFi is
16:34is still very much like a toddler and we need to keep feeding this toddler until it grows to become a man or whatever it’s going to grow to become so it’s like I want to tend to that community more, I want to focus a lot more on that side of me and maybe make potential Investments, if I If I find them, you know Like Legitimate, because I feel like there’s A lot of, as much as You know, there’s good ways to Utilize the tech, there’s a lot of opportunities There’s still a lot of Scammers out there, and like, we all need to Be careful and know the things that we’re actually
17:15You know, getting ourselves involved in So, yeah, I had a friend that got Skin this week, shout out to my Friend So yeah, yeah, yeah That’s pretty much it, a lot of amazing platforms out there, I would say the ones that I’ve used, I started off with like Decent.xyz, it’s like a platform for like minting NFTs, not just music NFTs, like any NFT actually, it’s like a marketplace, but they have like, yeah, and Sound, the XYZ I interviewed Nikki Bean She used to work as the Head of Community Marketing for DC and XYZ No longer, she’s left the Web3’s business She’s working in Space Tech now
18:00But then you said Sound, the XYZ Yeah, Sound, the XYZ I used Sound, the XYZ a lot as well I actually started off using Manifold Yeah, that’s how I minted my first Song ever, and I think My first two songs on Web3 And then I dabbled into like Decent and then Sounder XYZ. I think those are the only three platforms that I’ve used so far. Have you used catalog at all? No, I haven’t made any one-of-one music NFT. I feel like that’s something I want to do, but I just don’t know how I’m going to go around it yet. I have a profile on there. I just never really figured out how it’s going to go about
18:45like what I wanted to do with a one-on-one song like you know like I don’t just want to go and upload a one-on-one song I want to I want to like create a use case for it, you know some something like that so I haven’t used them yet, but I’m excited to like try them out in the future For sure. I’ve been looking at this platform on Solana as well Like that’s not the ETH blockchain because all these other platforms I mentioned are on Ethereum, right? This one’s on Solana, it’s called Vault I have heard of that, I know that Yeah, so I’m maybe thinking of minting stuff on there
19:21Is that just like a store marketplace, is that different than sound in some way or no? Yeah, I think it’s a music marketplace, it’s not just a general marketplace Yeah, so it’s just for music NFTs and on Solana Blockchain And so you’re dealing with a different ecosystem in it, like a consumer market per se Yeah, lest I forgot, I also have, I also minted a song on the Cardano blockchain. I know a lot of people don’t want to talk about Cardano, but yeah, free, I had free on ADA, so free was on ETH and also on ADA, and I used this platform, 6CT, they actually reached out to me, and they were like, yo, have you thought of releasing anything on like ADA, and like, this is how to go about it and stuff, like they walked me through it,
20:09and I was just like okay you know it never hurts to try new things so I did it back then and they were super amazing as well like I think that the founders there are really cool you know to be building on that chain you know like and still care enough about music and musicians like I feel like that’s that’s a good thing I definitely would I’m definitely I’m always open to collaborations you know like so I didn’t mind doing that at all. And then I’m curious, this week you really weren’t too familiar with Creative Alchemy before But they gave you your first panel experience, my first panel experience as well actually
20:46Yeah And I’m curious, what has it been like for you getting to know the Creative Alchemy team? It’s been amazing, you know And the community, yeah Yeah, it’s like the whole community, man Very intelligent individuals, super creative artists as well Yeah So like it’s a blend And talented Yeah like so like crazy talented it was it was amazing to just meet them in person I’ve had conversations with a few of them obviously like Gladys, Kushpa, I’ve been in the group chat but like just having to meet them in person was a different experience and yeah they put me on my first panel unplanned but I felt like it was it was cool I mean we learned a lot from the the meetup and I’m I’m
21:32I’m glad I was able to like contribute my little information that I had as well so yeah it was a great experience and you know with the whole creative alchemy community you know I feel like we are creative alchemy as well you know like we’re a part of the community so our community so really really amazing No, I agree, I agree I just more so wanted to hear, like, as a new community member, per se Like, you kind of meeting them for the first time in person and stuff like that I was curious to hear what your take was, I know One of my highlight conversations was also with Parker
22:05I didn’t, I was pretty surprised He was the most, like, I feel, like, technical person I met on this whole trip Even actually including Ayo, Ayodeji Because Ayodeji’s not a software developer And it was pretty cool to meet Parker Just talking to him about, like, him being in the space in 2014 You know, I’m remiss that I didn’t get to interview him actually But it was super cool to see, you know, his knowledge Not only of the blockchain space, but then of music culture Of larger Nigerian context and culture I thought that was a beautiful conversation we had the other night as well
22:35And I guess my, as we kind of wrap up I’m curious, like, what’s it been like for you Like being with Dan in person, you know And another person we spent pretty much this entire trip with Dan and Press Yeah, I mean, Press as well, okay But Dan first, Dan first Oh yeah, Dan, it’s been, Dan, I consider him like a big brother now, you know, like I was saying, he’s been our dad on this trip because like he’s just that man making sure he’s been looking out for all of us and just being a nice person overall. It’s been great hanging out with him and like just getting to know him more. We met once in Lagos.
23:12In December Yeah, in December But, you know, I feel like it’s completely different when you get to spend time and, like, actually live with someone So, like, he’s a great guy, man I mean, no stress, no disputes or anything like that No one’s been salty or rude to anybody That’s true I feel like that tells a lot about, you know, how we all are It means that we can We’re people that can coexist and live with each other’s differences, you know so I feel like that that speaks a lot and I feel like that’s that’s what real community is all about so like always man shout out to We Them Media like for being able to like bring people together in this manner man like
23:57really really amazing it’s been an incredible experience for sure and as you said yeah I cannot forget Mr. TK back here bumping his tunes headphones on uh how has it been for you to find him in person How did you work with this young man? Wow, it’s been one of the most exciting parts of the whole hangout and trip to me. It’s been so amazing. You do that in lock-in sessions. Yeah, having to make music with this man in person is a whole experience for me. Because usually he just sends me beats, I do my thing, go to the studio, dub it down and like yeah but now having to like share my ideas on like what I want to hear on the beat at certain times and he runs with it and even does it better than how I imagine it to come out like I feel like man I should have been working with this guy in person like from the onset but you know it’s happening at the right time and I’m excited to like evolve
25:02Around Him, you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s a beautiful thing. He’s taught me a lot, like over the past few days, like things that I didn’t, I didn’t pay attention to, I didn’t think they were, I didn’t think, I didn’t see them as issues with like my creative process and now like he’s pointed out those things and they made me a better composer, you know, like a more relaxed composer and it’s just like, wow, how much more can I learn? and like when I spend more time with this guy so like it’s been it’s been it’s been a great experience just getting to work with him in person man super talented and super focused yeah I mean it’s funny I mean I I never really worked with the producer really in person um and like I guess it’s not true actually I work with Sky Gecko like pretty pretty heavily but I feel like working on this like cypher track today uh like the four of us yourself uh TK Joshua Dan um
26:00and Myself I think like is the most I think I’ve worked with a group of artists and and also really the only time I’ve ever you know had people kind of make me feel like I want to refine my freestyle into like a verse that I’m proud of to contribute to something and I was really appreciative of like the feedback that he was giving us as we’re going back and forth even like as I was trying to speak to to Joshua about things I thought he could make changes to I felt like he could give more words to the things I was trying to say because I didn’t have language for and I was really appreciative of that I feel like like TK is
26:30I was way too humble. I feel like so talented. You know, I feel like frankly even like when I first heard Can’t Stop, I was just like, hey, who’s this guy singing, rapping on drill beats and making music NFTs. And so when you told me that he wanted to come, I was like, how do we get him here? You know, I want to hear the man who put my ear up to drill beats on chain. And it’s been incredible to me. I’m excited to see, exciting to see him come out of his shell and engage with us to have him at the event the other day and hear that, you know, he already felt like he knew
27:00do a lot of that Web3 stuff, and I wasn’t sure where he was at with that stuff. He says he really helped him along in that dream, which I think is beautiful and demonstrates you know, you as a leader help people come on chain as well. This creative space, but also just like, awesome to find a producer that’s really excited just to collaborate, you know, that’s excited to be a part of the community I’ve been building, I think. For a while now, it’s been like a lot of heads down looking at, you know, how do we get more black people into our community, like a lot less about like music on chain and a lot more about just like
27:25community on chain first and foremost. But I feel like this trip has really been an opportunity for me to see the creative side of everybody, you know, even Dan like talking to me about his poetry to, you know, doing the intro and outro to the song he worked on today, even putting down a little verse, like I was like, okay, Daniel, you know, it’s just like, it puts a huge smile on my face to see somebody, you know, set the stage for that. And, you know, I feel so appreciative that DK came with us on this journey. And super excited to make my return to West Africa and continue to lock in with him and yourself and just like, really even just being online, like in with this community more so to think about how we can collaborate and make more music.
27:57Because I feel like I started this podcast knowing I wanted to find a community of creators I could create with And it’s crazy to say that here I am in West Africa and I found that community because of this podcast So, you know, I feel so blessed, so blessed and so appreciative to you, you know, for being like Really one of the main reasons I was even thinking about coming here, you know It’s like I want to document this, I want to get him the fest But I think you not coming to California and me coming here these past two weeks has been like a completely different game
28:25And I’m just like so appreciative of the time I got to spend here like I feel like it’s crazy I feel like in America they make me feel like all the black people like there’s nowhere like comfortable black people to go in the world I mean I’m like oh this is like this is pretty chill I’m like everybody here is black like at the event like yesterday for example I think like they had people playing loud music and I’m like, you know, like they’re just like like It’s not like I fight in America So some white people are in that space and but you cannot play this music or that music
28:52They didn’t care what you put on it all, they started dancing to it. I’m like, yeah, it’s like the powers that be aren’t Caucasian and this is a whole different game. You know, I think like the dynamics are different, but they’re not the same. And I think it’s pretty beautiful to see like we race not be a conversation so much. And it seems to me like faith is a different conversation here and like there’s different tribes and things like that and different problems and different regions in this country. And I’m eager to continue to learn and better understand these different issues. I feel like this country has shown me a beautiful time. I’ve seen this is a beautiful country.
29:22I think going by road to come here I think was just inspiring to me because I got to see you know like like different windows into different parts of this country you know I think it maybe wasn’t the most comfortable ride for 12 hours but it was definitely like like I saw more in that trip than I feel like I’ve seen the AB days we got here since we’ve been this Airbnb so much and it’s been beautiful to interact with the community but I think it was just amazing to see you know the places people live on the bus ride and just being on this trip with you so I
29:50I appreciate you so much for shepherding me through this part of my own life experience of my podcast journey. I haven’t felt unsafe once since I arrived here and I give so much credit to you and Dan for that and just making sure that I don’t know what’s going on, you two know what’s going on, you guys are talking to people, people don’t know what I’m saying, you guys are speaking and I’m like okay great because otherwise it would be me. Now we even know what to put into Google Translate. I’m just so deeply appreciative that we’re getting to bond and come together in this way. I do consider you all my brothers and
30:19and I’m so appreciative to have found this community here and you all and to be going back home confidently knowing I have community here. Yeah. So thank you so much. As always, brother. I appreciate that. I’m going to pause. Three, two, one. Booyah!
