0:14Okay, I can see that.
0:15You notice I ain’t even play Gimme the Loop.
0:18Yeah.
0:19Every record that came on, I tried to play stuff that I had that had like a different sound.
0:26I feel like none of these are like-
0:27like if you go from Flav in Your Head to Tupac Straight Ballin’, that’s two- that’s like East and West. Yeah, not East and West Coast, but I mean like far apart. Yeah, they don’t sound like each other. Then you go from there to something like Going Back to Cali. Going Back to Cali. Yeah, that sound like 3 different producers, right?
0:50It does. No, yeah, I feel like all your beats were very different. Definitely different.
0:55That come from-
0:56Or you got like everything remaining?
0:59My record collection.
1:00Yeah.
1:01I like everything. Reggae, jazz, hip-hop, soul, funk, disco, house. You got a person like that much, what happens when they go to create?
1:14True. That’s real. That’s real.
1:18So like, I feel like so many beats.
1:23Like most of the beats on that Ready to Die album. How long did it take you to create? Because I mean, you made most of the album.
1:32So it’s like 6 songs. The most songs you’re on it? On Ready to Die? I did 6 songs.
1:39That’s how many songs there are total?
1:45That’s the first time I understood the definition of the word lion’s share because I had to hear other people say, “Yo, man, you did like the lion’s share.” I was like, “Lion what?” So it’s like that’s where I learned the definition of that word.
1:59On the original one, I think it’s like seventeen, but like on the deluxe, I think. Don’t quote me on that. But yeah, I mean, I think. Fact check you.
2:08Yeah, like he’s.
2:10I mean, all the beats you made on that joint were fire.
2:13Obviously, Gimme the Loot is fire.
2:17You did Machine Gun Fuck too, right?
2:20So what happened with that sample clearance thing? Because-
2:22Oh, okay.
2:23See, I don’t even know all these questions to ask. There’s a sample that didn’t get cleared.
2:29So they’re trying to rush it through?
2:32I guess. And, um, Because of that, it had to get pulled off.
2:38Okay.
2:39So on all the future pressings, you don’t get to hear that sample. Oh, so you can still find it? Like the vinyl album of Ready to Die that I brought in today, I got the first original pressing.
2:55Oh, okay.
2:56So the album I got still got all the samples. It’s a lot of people that would kill to get that original one. Yeah, because any copies being sold now, all of the future pressings, yeah, it’s not on them because of that.
3:15That’s crazy. Yeah, Machine Gun Fuck, that’s always been like one of my favorites. The drums on that is crazy. They knock like on like another level.
3:31It’s crazy. Yep. What else is there?
3:41I think the Busta Rhymes, Everything Remains Raw.
3:43That’s one of my favorites.
3:45That beat.
3:46If you- if somebody was to ask me what’s, what’s one of the favorite beats that you ever made, that’s in there.
3:55That one, that beat is crazy.
3:57That’s a lot going on in there. Yeah, if you really, really listen.
4:01But he got his voice on it, that just is like the perfect like counterpoint to everything you’re doing. But like I said, you listen to that beat by itself, it just sounds like, like you said, like it’s just so many different elements attacking you at once.
4:19It’s kind of crazy. For that one, it must have been anywhere from probably about 12 to 15 tracks on the board.
4:28Oh really?
4:29Like, Flavon, it was only, I think it’s 7 or 8 tracks that’s getting- some, some, some joints only got- they don’t take that much for it to feel full. And there’s other, other tracks Makes that- might have a whole lot of sounds.
4:53Yeah, if I remember correctly, like, the beat on the remix is the same as the original, right, for Flava? Or did you add anything to it?
4:59It’s the same.
4:59It’s the same exact beat, right?
5:00Just a different mix. Yeah, that’s why it sounds kind of-
5:08that’s dope.
5:10So what was it like recording that song? You said that’s one of your favorite songs you ever did. I like that you’re asking these questions because I’m not informed enough. That’s such a good question.
5:17What? Everything Remains Raw?
5:19On the song, he said the song Busta Rhymes.
5:21Yeah, Everything Remains Raw. Yeah, that’s it.
5:22Oh, then yes. See, I told you I’m not-
5:24I’m not-
5:24Well, back then I remember I was still living in Brooklyn. I remember I had to drive all the way out to Long Island. Where in Brooklyn?
5:33Bed-Stuy.
5:34Okay.
5:34Which is short for Bedford-Stuyvesant.
5:36The live is on.
5:38Yeah.
5:39Representing BK to the fullest.
5:41But Busta, he had his favorite studio was out in Long Island. So I had to drive all the way out there with his engineer Ricky St. Hilaire. Wherever you at, Ricky, peace to you, man.
5:54What’s up?
5:55And he’s still working to this day too, but we recorded that there. And, um, talking about earlier what we just said, um, me and Ricky We bumped heads a little bit.
6:13Okay, in what ways?
6:14Not real bad, just I’m real picky in particular about my sound. Yeah, and, uh, like I said, that track probably had maybe anywhere from 12 to 14 tracks, so that’s a lot of passes. Yeah, if you could get everything out of the drum machine That would be 8 tracks at a time. So get the first 8 sounds, that’s one pass. Come back and get another 8. I didn’t need a full 16, probably about 12 different- 14 tracks. But-
6:53And when you-
6:54You know, then you go to- then you want your stuff EQ’d a certain way. And then sometimes engineers, they disagree. It’s just, you know what I mean? Yeah, for a producer that cares or artists that care, they’ll disagree because they don’t like that sound as much. No, they might have a different vision for how to track, how they want to mix it sound, and then you got your own idea what you want.
7:26You need a competing artist as opposed to collaborating, right? Nice to put words in your mouth. I don’t have microphone, so they can’t hear me.
7:40This is not, um, you’re not using that?
7:44It’s on. I’m just not saying- I’m saying YouTube has it.
7:46Okay, so this is freestyle, or you got some questions already you had lined up?
7:52Honestly, I, I, I was just gonna talk to you.
7:54You’re just winging it? Man, it’s yes. All right.
7:59I just like to you know I treat you like as you’re anybody else. You know we said yesterday we do interview. I said okay.
8:04I said I was going to do it.
8:04Only thing I had to do was show up and do it.
8:06That’s cool.
8:07So I’ve been working on editing stuff from yesterday this morning into now, and then I got on a bus and here I am. So but this guy, like I said, this guy is prepared. So I said oh wow.
8:15I came at the right time, and so did he. Listen, I just I just listen to music a lot. So that’s my thing.
8:20So do you do you produce?
8:23Only a little bit, only a little bit.
8:26Which one, DJ or produce?
8:28Produce a little bit.
8:29Okay, with DJing, did you start digital or did you start vinyl?
8:36Started digital.
8:37Okay, you ever mix vinyl before?
8:40No.
8:41Would you try? I’m interviewing him. That’s good though. No, no, that’s a, that’s an interesting Interesting question that I’ll be having for DJs that started with digital first. I wonder sometimes, would they even try mixing the vinyl, and do it even matter to them?
9:08I mean, I got a lot of vinyl and stuff like that, so I mean, I would- I’d be interested in doing it. It’s just I never But definitely would be interested in obviously doing that because, I mean, it’s part of the tradition, right? So I think it’s a big, you know, a big thing to do.
9:25The only difference is a lot of the stuff like beat matching that you could do, you know, because over here you’re playing the track, let’s just say it’s 92 beats per minute, you can hit a button and match This side, this, this, uh, turntable, this side to 92 automatically. And y’all seen me, if, if you was up there earlier when I was DJing, seen me pushing the record and adjusting the- I was pitching it out.
9:55Yeah.
9:56So that they both running on the same speed. That’s all stuff that you gotta do by hand manually.
10:03That’s why I was about to ask you next, because I’ve read like from different like producers during that era, like how hard it was to sample back in those days. So I’m just wondering, like when you were pulling together like a track like Temptations, for example, and getting all those samples together, how long did it take you to create that beat?
10:24It depends. Flavor in Your Ear, I remember I made that probably like Not exactly a half hour, probably about 20, 25 minutes.
10:36That’s crazy back then though.
10:38Then it’s other stuff, I’ll start on it and then, you know, you can save the beat. So the fact that you could save it means you could also come back later and edit, take stuff out, like, nah, let me scrap that. Or even if you want to do it all over. And it’s been some tracks, be working on it for 2 weeks.
11:00Yeah.
11:004 days, 2 weeks, however long it takes. I shut stuff down a lot of times. I get to a certain point where I’m happy up to that point what I got, and then I, I could feel it. Like, I’m like, you’ll save it, cut the machine off right now. I could feel it. Like, if I keep forcing it, I’m gonna mess it up. So I’ll save it, go to sleep, wake up tomorrow. Sometimes I even do it on purpose, stay away from the beat like 2 or 3 days, come back 3, 3 days later with fresh ears.
11:41But when do you- how do you know where to leave it, right? So you’re like-
11:47When it feels good.
11:48When it feels good. All right, so like-
11:49And then if I’m struggling to add more, it’s like-
11:51That’s when you’re like, I gotta stop, you’re doing too much.
11:54Okay.
11:55That makes sense.
11:56But I would have- if I was in the studio on the spot with somebody right there waiting on it, I ain’t got no choice. I gotta keep going. I gotta finish. But if you just casual at home making a beat, you get to a point you feel like you’re forcing it, save it, man, and come back to it later. Don’t force it.
12:16So you’ve been-
12:17Because when you come back later with fresh ears It’s almost like hearing it brand new. And when you was sitting there trying to cram, later when you come back, now you’re, you’re getting new ideas. You’re like, ah, okay, you know what? Yeah, that’s what it needs, a tambourine. You sitting there, you cramming.
12:38Hey, bro, I just want to ask-
12:43It’s all good.
12:44Peace, man.
12:45I was working the floor, so I couldn’t get at you.
12:47Oh, it’s all good.
12:48Yeah.
12:49You can pull up your chair too if you want.
12:52Well, the microphone’s over here.
12:53It’s not a formal thing.
12:54All right, okay.
12:55All right, there you go.
12:58Yeah, I just want to ask you, what’s your favorite beat, if you got one, that you produced?
13:05He must have came right after I told you.
13:07Oh, you told him? Oh, he asked that question?
13:09I told him one of, one of favorite beats, like at the top of the list for Me is that Busta Rhymes. Everything remains raw.
13:18Okay, okay.
13:20What are some other ones?
13:22Of course, the Flavor in Your Ear joint.
13:24Okay, what about Lost Boys?
13:27That’s a, that’s a banger. Yeah, they all bangers, man.
13:30Yeah, there was a lot going on in that one too.
13:33That beat is crazy.
13:36Okay, you produced too?
13:38No, no, I used to spit. I mean, I still spit, but I don’t produce My son’s producing right now.
13:43That’s cool.
13:44Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
13:50Yeah, man.
13:51But, uh, yeah, you surprised me today. A lot of, a lot of the beats you was playing, I ain’t know you produced them, dawg. Even like the- I think the, uh, the Wu-Tang joint you played, Take It Back.
14:02Yeah, that joint from the 8 Diagrams album. Yeah, that was like Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:10Because I looked it up when I seen you. I was like, hold on, I gotta look this up real quick. I was like, okay, okay. Yeah, that was fire. That was fire. In that, in that, in that one you played with Rayquan. Um, what was that?
14:23Uh, I think that was the, um, that’s the Woojo.
14:26No, that was another one though. That was him by- that was, that was, that was another one.
14:29I played something else with Rayquan on it.
14:31Yeah, you played something else with Rayquan. It was, it was a fact. It was like, uh, It was like that Rakim beat, um, uh, what song was that? It was, it was a swinging beat with Raequan. I can’t, I can’t say because it’s a Rakim song. I think he used it. He’s used kind of like the same. I think I definitely know. I think it was a James Brown beat, some kind of, kind of like a James Brown beat.
15:00Yeah, man.
15:01That’s what’s up. Yeah, I just wanted to ask you that though. Yeah, so, so, so I’m gonna tell you one. And so one of my favorite songs is a remix. It’s Pink Cookies.
15:13Oh yo, yeah, well, you know what happened with that, with that, right? No, I’ll tell you a short story.
15:20Excellent, excellent. Let me get my, let me get my recorder.
15:29The short story on the pink cookies in a plastic bag is at the time I was still in- I was still in Brooklyn then. I moved since then, but there was this Chinese-
15:45it’s still there-
15:46this Chinese restaurant on Myrtle Avenue in Brooklyn. Myrtle and Washington.
15:50Okay. It’s called-
15:52it’s called Kum Kow.
15:53Kum Kau.
15:56Everybody in Brooklyn love Kum Kau Chinese restaurant. People be coming from Manhattan, far side of Brooklyn, East New York, just to get their food. Anyway, I got me some Chinese food and I jumped into my car, and, uh, The Source magazine used to have this dude that worked there Called the Matty C.
16:23Okay.
16:24He controlled the, uh, the section in the magazine called the Unsigned Hype.
16:29Yeah.
16:30That’s where- that’s how Biggie got signed.
16:32Oh, that’s cool.
16:33From being in the Unsigned Hype. Okay, so I got my Chinese, I get in the car. Matty, he lived around there too. Just as I’m getting ready to pull off, he come and jump around the- run around the passenger side. He’s like, yo, Mo. I’m like, what up, Matt?
16:50What’s going on?
16:50He said, you got a minute? I said, yeah. Jump in the car, the passenger side. And he said, yo- this is when the Pink Cookies joint had just first came out. He said, yo, Mo, you know that joint you did, the Pink Cookies joint, the remix? I said, yeah. He said, yo, um, Mob and them, they working on a new album and everything, and they want to know what is that sample you use for, um, Pink Cookies. So I ain’t never been like that. We don’t own these records, right? Yep, we don’t own these joints. You know, people get attitudes. Somebody use the same thing as you, you You don’t- we don’t own these records. So I told him what it was, but I told him, I said, but the way- I told him, I said, but look though, make sure to tell them it’s a special way they gotta chop the joint. I said, because I said the joint travels at like a blues tempo.
18:04Hmm.
18:05It ain’t your average 1, 2, 3, 4. One, two. It was traveling at like a blues tempo. Say like, like, like James Brown. It’s a man’s man’s world. You know that’s like. Do do do do. Now, a lot of people. Let’s just put it like this. Back then, if the record wasn’t going on, if it wasn’t already on that tempo, people would hear it and they would like what they hear, but a producer might be like, you know why? Because that’s a heavy, intricate chop job. The notes- the main reason why we sample is because You like the music that you hear, right?
19:04For sure.
19:05So my thing always been, okay, it’s traveling at a blues tempo, but, but do you like what you hear? This man’s soulful. Like, yeah. I’m like, okay, so the notes you hear, you’re gonna have to take and put it on where it needs to be in order for it to go On a beat like that, that’s what I did to that sample. And I told Matty, see, it’s a certain way they gonna have to chop it. I told them when they when they hear the record, they gonna understand what they gotta do. And next thing I know, when the um give up the goods came out, all I heard was cut. I said they got it, they got it.
20:02So I got another question for you since you said that. I’m trying- I was trying to figure how did Pac and Nas-
20:09before you get to that, long story short, what I wanted to end it off is saying you got a lot of that today and even as far back as 10, 15 years ago. But back when I did that, no producers was taking the time and having patience enough to chop stuff like that, right, out of blues records. That’s records that’s moving at blues tempos and stuff like that. That’s, that’s, that’s work, man. You got to go in there, chop the notes you want, and then put them on a whole nother time signature. I was one of the first to do that. Not to toot my horn, but it’s-
20:52You got to.
20:53You’re a legend.
20:53And then I started hearing other producers doing it. I was like, okay, yeah, they got it. Now they got it.
21:02They caught up.
21:03They caught up. They caught up. Shades of Black on, uh, we was just talking about that on the Panther Center. But it was 2 Panther soundtracks. It was the official Panther soundtrack on Mercury Records, and then it was- I forgot the name of this other label. They was trying to get into the game too. Some of the same stuff was happening with the American Gangster, uh, movie too. You had the official soundtrack and it was other people trying to do stuff, put stuff out.
21:37True.
21:38But on the unofficial Panther soundtrack that I did. Shades of Black by Rakim on there. You know what else was on that official soundtrack? I know you remember the KRS joint. Oh yeah, what you say? Oh yeah, remember that? That was on that soundtrack, on that unofficial.
22:07So what was my other question?
22:08Oh, that’s one time I worked with Rakim, and then the other time is a song I did that he did on a Shaq- Shaquille O’Neal album.
22:18Okay.
22:18That’s the type of stuff like people, they don’t even know.
22:23Yeah, I didn’t know that.
22:24Like, I never knew that. I never heard that because it wasn’t a single. It was like an album cut. If you never listened to that album, you don’t know.
22:32You know one track I found out that you produced, I was like, I didn’t even know like who this guy was. King Juss, No Flows on the Rodeo. Yo, that joint is crazy.
22:40What you probably don’t know is I did 2 on that.
22:43You from Cali?
22:43I did.
22:44Nah, I’m from Jersey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:47I was like, who is this guy? If you didn’t have the album, what you probably didn’t know is I did 2 on this album. No Flows on the Rodeo and another one called Can I Get Some. You probably never heard that.
22:59I ain’t heard that one.
23:00Again, album cuts. Yeah, you had to listen to the whole album to know certain songs.
23:08Yep. Wow.
23:14So how many stops?
23:15It’s like a book tour you’re doing? Yeah, just promoting the book, going around promoting the book.
23:21How many-
23:21like, you have- how long is your tour? How many places are you stopping at, man?
23:24We’re gonna keep going. I’m waiting to, um, See how many more ideas and concepts you got for locations, stores, clubs, whatever. Whatever we gotta do to go, whatever it takes to promote this book, I’m on deck. Okay. Like we leave here tonight and then I’m going to New York.
23:47Okay.
23:48I have a bunch of different, a couple of radio. Interviews I gotta do, whatever it took.
23:56That’s exciting.
23:57Yeah, whatever it takes to, uh, push this thing and bring some, um, some awareness to it.
24:02What’s the impact you want this book to have?
24:05I want people to see parts of my life, or maybe even across the span of my career and stuff that I was doing. I want them to read something or find out something about me that They never knew. Like how I just told you that Mobb Deep story.
24:25Yes.
24:26To give up the goods. You know, it’s your story. Go ahead.
24:31Don’t worry about me.
24:31Sorry about that.
24:32You don’t have to apologize.
24:34Just long as people get to learn some stuff about me that they probably never knew.
24:39I can tag you in the video if you don’t have to worry about it.
24:41Okay, okay.
24:42Yeah, okay.
24:43You can have the video. You can do whatever.
24:47Yep. By the way, bro, the, the, uh, sweet potato pie was good.
24:52I’m so glad to hear that.
24:53Did you have like some honey, or it was something real sweet other than the sweet potato pie that was in there?
25:00I know it’s like sugar in the raw. I know it’s sea moss. Well, sea moss doesn’t have a flavor. Um, maybe honey.
25:07I’ll check the label again and I’ll be happy to tell you exactly what’s in it.
25:12So the question I had first, when you was talking about how you told the man about the beat for Mob, right? You told him what the sample. So of course I was gonna ask you first, how did- do you know about the story of how Pac and Nas got that beat?
25:34Oh, that’s what you’re gonna say about Nas?
25:36Got they what?
25:37Got so, uh, Street Dreams, All Eyes on Me.
25:42Oh, the Linda Clifford sample?
25:45Yeah.
25:46Never Gonna Stop? No, when you- yeah, you’re right, they both use the same sample.
25:51Yeah, that was like around the same time.
25:53I wasn’t involved with them records. All right, I don’t know, that wasn’t my record.
25:58You just pulled- you said what, Linda Clifford?
26:01Yeah, Linda Clifford, Never Gonna Stop. Okay, because I got the album at home. Yeah, I’ll be knowing a lot of them samples. Yeah, yeah, what people use, stuff coming out now, the records I used to listen to when I was a kid and I had the whole album. So I pick it right up, I’ll be like, oh yeah, that’s Gladys Knight and the Pips.
26:23So, so what you think now about how it’s- so, so we, we agreed it’s way easier to sample, right? It’s way easier now to sample.
26:33What do you mean in terms of the clearance, the permission, as far as like digital, as far as the act of sampling, like actually doing it? That’s what you mean?
26:45You can grab whatever you want now. It depends on what you ask, because you’re talking about, uh, no, I’m saying as far as you, if you hear a sample, you can, you can basically grab any part of the song you want now. Like real quick?
26:57It depends on what you’re using. If you, if you still, if you’re still using something like the SP-1200 that I, I still use, or the MPC, it might- process might take a little longer.
27:11Okay.
27:12But then you got other samplers and other software and stuff, it can happen quicker. So you can put it on pause.
