A hack, a rollback and a round on weaknesses.

0:01AAll right, what’s up everybody?

0:02BWhat’s up? What’s up, Maseo?

0:04AWhat’s up, Zol? What’s up, Onajibi? Um, it’s me, Maseo, and we’re here with Let’s Talk About ETH. This week we got a fireside chat. We played nose goes on who run the intro, and I, I didn’t win. And that’s it. Yeah, out here with these guys. I told my mom last night, I was telling her about the podcast actually, and I was telling her this is probably a highlight of my week every week, just talking with you two. Like, I feel like I’m in the mix when I talk to you guys, and I like that. Um, I feel like I get to nerd out about crypto stuff, but also the intersection of crypto and media.

0:04AOnaje, you working with, like, you know, people of color especially educating about tech, and Zaal, you being out here thinking about media and art specifically. I feel like those are pretty much the 2 pillars of what I do historically, and I feel like as I’m thinking now about journalism and that 3rd pillar, I feel like here we are nailing them all together, and I feel like It’s like a good zen space for me each week. So I’m really excited for this fireside chat this week and to, yeah, just jump into it. How are you two doing? How’s the last week been?

1:02CAmazing, man. Things have been, have been cool, been smooth, you know. Um, hey, both of us, me and Z, some lifestyle, uh, some, uh, IRL life milestones. Yeah, so it’s been a, it’s a goated week last weekend and everything. So, um, Facts. Yeah, man.

1:20AGreat. Congrats. Congrats. Congrats to Z. Well, what’s your -- what’s your big life update? I don’t know about your big life update. I’m out of the loop.

1:27CI had 2 -- 2 of my -- 2 of my kids, 2 of my boys, they turned 18. So I had 2 more adults out here in the world. But, uh, he said okay. Yeah, yeah, that’s a good time.

1:38ALooking them up, man. 18 years of work.

1:45CTrying to teach them what we can teach them, and that’s it, you know. The time’s up. Not, not really, but by law, like, by law, at times though, they could be like, all right, see ya. And I’m like, ah, all right. But you know, if you do a good enough job, they’re not gonna leave. They, they’re gonna stick around for a few years after that. Hopefully not too many after that. No, I’m just kidding, just kidding.

2:09AThey coming for me?

2:10CIt’s all good. You said what? No, no, no, you -- I didn’t even know. I didn’t know. You said you was explaining the pod to mom and everything. I didn’t know you stayed like with -- like, you know what I’m saying? I didn’t know. I wasn’t assuming.

2:21AThat’s okay. I’m unoffended. I live with my parents. I’m gonna -- I’m gonna -- I’m gonna --

2:27Cthat’s a lot of folks right now though.

2:29ABeing, being, you know, like you said, uh, teaching them and stuff like that, you know, 18 years of showing up for your son as a dad, as a Black dad in particular, right? You know, that’s a massive thing. So kudos to you, Black dad in the building. Successful Black dad in the building. Stop playing with it.

2:45CThere’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of them, man. You know, media won’t, uh, highlight that type vibes, but, uh, it’s a lot of them.

2:51AYeah, a lot of --

2:52Cit’s more often than not.

2:53AI can’t say that. Shout out to y’all.

2:57CThat’s funny. That’s funny. Z, what’s going on with you, man? How’s everything going?

3:02BIt’s going good. So yeah, big, big life news. We got engaged. I proposed to my girlfriend, now fiancée.

3:09AWhoa, whoa, hey!

3:10BYup, been together for 5 years and yeah, love of my life. So super excited to start the next phase. Throughout that, been building throughout and really excited for kind of where 2026 has to offer and all of the different things that are kind of coming together here and ahead. I think it’s kind of such a great time to be building right now. in whatever you’re doing and just being consistent in something. And, uh, the power of that’s gonna get us far. So I’m excited to be here again for, you know, our 5th, 6th week and, uh, just chopping it up.

3:46CHell yeah.

3:49ASo how is it like, I guess for you, Z, like how do you see this as like a milestone? Like, uh, it’s a big milestone.

3:58BI mean, Yeah, it is for sure in a lot of different ways. It’s, uh, it’s been, uh, a really good, enjoyable last few days. It’s cool to, you know, call the woman that, you know, I had for quite some time, wanted to, you know, eventually be my wife, now my fiancée. And, uh, yeah, been living together for the last 2 years here. We bought our house in the last year or so. It’s been like that life journey and just kind of excited to continue along that, excited to kind of plan the wedding a little bit. I’ve had something in the books with a pending artist, you know, for our wedding to perform for the last year plus. So that’s been kind of like one of the first things we were chatting about, but we’ve been to a few weddings over the last few years of different family members. And we’re kind of in that phase of our lives where other people are also getting married, buying houses, having children. And it’s been really cool to kind of be able to start that phase for us as well.

5:02CLove it, love it. And now you got more, you know, more time, more, more, uh, energy to focus on the Ethereum and what you’re building over in Web3 and going crazy. You know, you’ve been ramping up like every day. These, these streams have been, have been gas. Your conversations, your interviews, what you’ve been building, the vibe coding side, man, tackling on all sides. And I love to see it. So Yeah, keep going in. I’m excited to see what happens for the rest of the year and, you know, beyond that. Michelle.

5:32BThank you. I appreciate that a lot. Um, I was gonna say, I would love to know, uh, Maseo -- put Maseo on the hot seat -- last week where you’ve been at. We Them Media, you guys have been cooking. I’ve been seeing a lot of stuff. I try not to be on social media as much as I can, but luckily you guys are tagging me on everything so I can at least try and like and recast and in an ideal world quote recast, right? And different things. And I just finally realized that Gift was tagging me in a lot of things, but Farcaster Client wasn’t giving it to me because she doesn’t actually have a lot of followers yet.

5:32BSo one of the things I wanna build out here is a let’s talk about ETH client for individuals that we do end up bringing onto Farcaster that, you know, do message us and wanna get involved. And those messages do not just immediately go to the void potentially. So at least within our community, kind of something similar to what I’ve been building already. So that’s been exciting and I’m excited to hear like more of what you got going on behind the scenes. How it’s been. I think it’s been one of your first full weeks in Philly there, right? So I would love to kind of know how it’s like settling in.

5:32BAnd like, I’ve been really enjoying some -- seeing some of your videos on the timeline.

6:39AOkay, yeah, throw me in the hot seat. I appreciate it, you know. I appreciate you being interested. It’s been, um, it’s been cool being back home. Um, I live with my parents, my sister and her kids, my niece and nephew, and they’re 5 and 7. And I would say a highlight is definitely seeing them and talking to them. My niece is like conversant and busy and like talking to herself if nobody’s talking to her. So it’s been cool to see her as like a high-energy 5-year-old. My mom is dog sitting and also doing some other stuff. So she has me here watching like 4 dogs and a cat.

6:39ASo if you hear barking and like might see my screen shaking, that’s the cat pushing my shit around. And so it’s cool being at home with them, you know, making noise and being here with the pets making noise and -- Just being around family again has been nice. You know, I was hanging out here last night with my mom, talking to her for probably an hour, and she’s like, it’s cold. But, you know, we just kept forgetting it was cold and kept talking, and that was nice, you know, just kind of catching up. So being back home has been nice. I, um, over the weekend, more We Them Media-centric, right?

6:39AI, I shot like 2 interviews. I was hanging out with some friends, catching up with them, telling them about what I’ve been doing, getting some of their feedback, which was pretty cool.

7:48CI think we lost him completely, and you’re muted, Z. But, uh, I think, yeah, I saw the confirmation that, yeah, it wasn’t just me. Are you back?

8:00BYeah.

8:01COh my God, back in the middle, we lost you for a second.

8:03AYou lost me completely, huh?

8:05BYou’re good now though.

8:07AOkay, well, I was just saying that, um, that was cool. They were showing me some other kind of platforms doing their own street content and kind of getting some perspective, and then I went out and did like 2 or 3 here in Philly. And, uh, what was it, the -- some people, they’re like, don’t post me on YouTube, don’t post me on YouTube. But they were saying insightful stuff, right, about the mayor. Um, we have like a Black woman as our mayor here in Philadelphia and how they see her and how they see some city politics.

8:30CInsightful stuff about the mayor.

8:32AYeah, yeah, exactly. So I appreciate this kind of -- you said what? I’m lagging a lot, huh?

8:47BI think I’m lagging a lot.

8:53AAm I lagging substantially?

8:55CNo, I think every once in a while just goes in and out. Yeah.

9:00AAll right. Well, let me move.

9:04CBut he was trying to enjoy the outside. Look at him.

9:08BYeah.

9:08CNice.

9:11AYeah, it was like, nah, I agree, but it’s okay. Um, I’m just gonna move over to the steps. But, um, guys, back --

9:20Cbeing back home, man, coming back home is, is such a, such a cool experience. But I think, um, it’s valuable though. You know, I talk a lot of, you know, in the streams, you know, I’m on day 247 now, these 365 going crazy. We talked early on about how I think it’s so important that You know, people do leave their hometowns and they do kind of leave that safe circle. I think one of the main pieces, ’cause you get a, you know, you get diversity of thought, diversity of living, diversity of everything really, when you put yourself into a place that you don’t know what’s going on, you gotta figure it out, you really gotta pay attention. And it’s kind of cool because when you do kind of return back and you have those kind of reunions, you appreciate it more. You’re like, I, you know, it’s one of those things where --

10:05AYeah.

10:07CI wanna spend time away from something so I can miss it, you know? You know what I’m saying? Yeah. So I think that’s pretty cool. And I already know, I already know it’s a vibe, man. You know, you’re talking about, you know, niece and nephew and stuff. And like, you know, it’s like seeing them grow and watching the time, you know, pass in between, you know, last time you seen them and then this time. Everybody else, you know, it’s just that’s just them. That’s what they’ve been doing. But to you, it’s like, no, these are major, this is a different person, you know, growing into, you know, a different individual. So yeah. I feel that. And I think everybody needs that, man, to, you know, not only move away from their hometown, uh, for a time, um, you know, if you can’t go back, I mean, it is what it is. But if you can, like, it’s, it’s so beautiful to kind of catch up with, with your folks, your people, your friends, you know, your family and all that good stuff. So that’s dope, man. I know you’re living it up.

10:58AYeah, yeah, I’m excited to be here. And I’m -- I think being in -- and I appreciate you saying that. I was gonna say Being in Colorado for 6 weeks was a nice reprieve from being here. I feel like I got to strike a routine. I feel like I hit some inspiration, right, with this man on the street content, which I’m really having a lot of fun with. And I got to kind of get comfortable, right, and just talking to everybody anywhere. I feel like I’m pretty anxious and I feel like I’m pretty comfortable with the crypto stuff at like my Landmark stuff, my personal development class, and like specific spaces, right?

10:58ABut I don’t just walk up and talk to anybody on the sidewalk and just like -- We gotta at least be waiting for the bus, you know. But I feel like the, the -- I just see somebody and I feel called to interview them and I just say, hey, can I interview you for my YouTube channel? And they look at me a little bit crazy most of the time, but then I say, well, can I tell you about it, you know? Or, okay, what are you talking about? And we just, we just start up a conversation right there. And then I tell them the question of the week or, you know, what I’m thinking about.

10:58ASo it’s really pushed me out of my comfort zone and got me just connecting with more people when I -- What, all over the place, honestly. And so being back home and starting to step into that, I feel excited to know, like, in Denver I explored it, and now I’m in Philadelphia, and I know, like, I wanna get to know my city, my community here a lot more. And I feel like if I could -- people say, you know, as an artist, you know, when you have your city behind you, that’s your first milestone in success. And so I feel like a goal for me --

12:21CRight.

12:21ALike, how do I get Philadelphia behind my content this summer? And I’m excited to have found a format I feel good about with this, like, man on the street content, right? I feel like I’m gonna meet a lot of people this summer, and I’m gonna be trying to go to any event I can and just vlogging and talking to people and posting the shit on YouTube. And like, if somebody wants to edit some of the stuff that I get, then they can edit it. And if not, you know, at least the moments are documented and people will know my page is a page, right, where some of those moments exist, you know?

12:49BYeah.

12:49AUm, I would say that’s kind of what I’m focused on right now to some degree. And I, I went to the Boys and Girls Club yesterday. I’m looking at applying to work there this summer, honestly. ASAP and just be around the kids. And it’d be sick if my niece and nephew came there for summer camp. Um, and then I talked to a cafe yesterday about being a barista there. This woman I know, she runs like an art gallery and has a cafe as well. And my great-aunt, she’s like 83, I think, now, I think. And she’s like, does like folk art. Um, and she had an art gallery, uh, exhibition there like maybe 2 years ago.

12:49AUm, and so it would be sick to have a space outside my house where I can go to work at any hour of the day. And also like a community that’s kind of art-centric and Afrocentric, right, that I can participate in and like kind of have a space, you know, to curate. And kind of, I think that’d be a pretty cool, you know, opportunity here in my community. So those are some things I’ve been exploring. But internally, I would say, you know, I’m really grateful. We were running like a content creator kind of community. We’re doing like weekly Zoom calls. And my friend Devin came in to start leading that.

12:49AAnd so he’s kind of hosting it. We talk about what we’re out to achieve in the coming week as a content creator, how many videos we’re doing. what videos we’re editing, you know, what we’re exploring, where we’re getting stuck, you know, and just kind of getting to know each other. And my goal is, I would say, to some degree, find out from who in that pod would be interested in kind of exploring this video journalism thing so they can potentially become like another chapter, you know, maybe you’ll say, or another channel, you know, on the network, right, of another community who’s kind of getting coverage through this kind of meta approach.

12:49AAnd so I’m really in love with that and just excited to see people, you know, finding their comfortability doing content and seeing who’s really excited about this. My friend Devin is, so it leaves me feeling like even if I get a job and I’m not doing, you know, 10 videos a week of Man on the Street content, if he’s doing 5 and I’m doing 5, or a couple people are doing 2, right, then we’ll still have an active page. And I’m just falling in love with the idea of people enjoying doing what I’m doing, right? And not just feeling like I’m asking them to do shit for me, ’cause, you know, that’s unsustainable.

14:49CI hear that. No, I think that’s real cool, man. And shout out to you. I know you’re about to attack the summer and go crazy. You know, one of the things that kind of stuck with me is you were like early, you’re like, you know, one of the things that’s kind of irking me is that, you know, I call myself a media company, but I’m not putting out that much media.

15:07AYes.

15:07CAnd now just to see you, like, you in that journey and you’re beaming, you excited, and you’re brainstorming around it and getting people involved, collaborating. It’s like you being that media company now. And that’s, you know, I definitely wanna call that out. Just to highlight that, man. Keep going. You know, proud of the journey. Yeah, keep going. So that’s what’s up.

15:27AYeah, I appreciate that. Shout out to GIF. Shout out to GIF.

15:30CShout out to GIF. Shout out to GIF.

15:32AAnd behind the scenes, Fideszio, I’m grateful he was on here last because he’s definitely been spending -- he’s been in -- he told me like 2 hours per video on clipping these things up. So major shout out to him. You know, he’s just being clutch. So the two of them are really, you know, making us be a media company, you know. I’m just --

15:49CThere you go, good.

15:50AHolding people accountable and saying thank you and giving them their flowers. That’s lit, every time.

15:55CCandy’s in the building, good to see you, Candy. Uh, Candy said, what up, I have kids you can entertain. She’s in NYC, I’m crying. But, uh, no, she said, he’s making me feel guilty too, LOL. Nah, you’re -- Candy, you’re killing it, you’re killing it. You’re doing big things as well. Um, Z and Marcel, there’s been a lot that, uh, has happened this past week.

16:14BYeah, I, I guess it’s like That whole hack shit stuff recently, not just hacks. There’s been a lot of stuff that’s happened in the last week. We’ll say, I don’t know how caught up you are.

16:26AI saw the Aave, some fake USDC that was bullshit, and then people couldn’t get their money out.

16:32BI guess that’s not what we were talking about initially, but yeah, that’s the biggest thing for sure.

16:38AYeah, what are you talking about?

16:41CUh, a big major hack, um, KelpDAO, you know, some infrastructure, uh But yeah, those are the same things. Oh, the AAVE joint is the same thing?

16:49BYeah, basically KelpDAO lost. You could explain it, but at the end, like, it --

16:55ANo, no, I just saw some Telegram messages and I didn’t do any research, but I thought that’s what you were talking about. So go ahead.

17:02BUh, KelpDAO got hacked and they basically made a bunch of fake money and traded it into real money. Using, uh, Aave, I’m pretty sure. So Aave lost a bunch of money.

17:17AYeah, that’s what I heard. I heard a lot of people couldn’t withdraw their cash.

17:20BI believe -- I’m not 100% sure, actually.

17:23CThe big news for me -- here’s the thing, for me, like, the hacks aren’t new. We’re gonna see more, unfortunately. People are now using -- teams are using AI to exploit the hacks and find more vulnerabilities and stuff. The piece I think that’s like shaking up a lot of folks is I think Arbitrum actually went in, they had their security council of 12 folks that were like, yeah, we’re gonna just, you know, roll back or take a little, take, you know, from the hacker address. You know, I think they recovered like $70 million worth of ETH or something.

18:02AHmm.

18:03CA lot of the space was like, that’s not decentralization. At all. Like, is that good? That’s good for those people, their funds and all that good stuff, and you know, yada yada. But as far as like the whole, you know, ethos of crypto, no. People are like, okay, again, you guys are showing us -- people are showing us that the only true decentralized, um, crypto out there is the number one Bitcoin, you know what I’m saying? So there was a lot of, uh, it’s a lot of talk. Uh, on the timelines this last week.

18:36ASo, and I’m curious, like, like, that’s exactly -- that’s like not the first time, right? That’s the major precedent, right? ETH Classic to ETH. And so now this is happening with Arbitrum. Like, do people see it as like, oh, ETH was early on its journey, Arbitrum’s only -- what is it, Arbitrum, like 4 years old? Like, I don’t know.

18:52CI think it’s a little bit older than that, but, uh, oh yeah, I don’t know, but it might be considered an OG now at this point. Let’s see.

19:00AYeah, yeah. I just want to get my airdrop from Arbitrum in 2020, 2024, I think. 2023.

19:05CThat’s funny. That is funny.

19:09BI don’t know. I, I think so. What’s the deal with the Security Council and their actual governance on Arbitrum, right? So that’s my thought process is like, yeah, some people are upset. In my honest opinion, what are you upset about? Are you upset about the fact that they are on L2 and decided to make a change by deciding how the network should be because they have the control of the code? Like, how did those 7 people or whatever make the decision? How did -- is it just one person that just like picks it? Like, I also -- I think it is, right? Like, you know, just like a group of people make -- reaching consensus on it. But altogether, like, that -- I’m pretty sure like that’s all pretty like transparent with Arbitrum, right? Like, I would hope, right? Like, they have that security council. Like, like, I’m pretty sure, right? Because it’s like a bunch of different advisors from different companies or something like that, right? Or not even just companies, but different kind of parts of the industry. And I think, like, I don’t know, I guess it just depends on how transparent they were. I, I have -- I would have to look into it as well.

20:18CYeah, I’m reading that, um, security council elections are held every 6 months, uh, for Arbitrum. And yeah, it’s, you know, um, I don’t know how -- That’s interesting.

20:31BSo, but anyways, my point is, on all that, is like, that’s all whatever governance is decided by whomever, whatever is created. So if you’re not doing something like, uh, Bitcoin or, uh, you know, even ETH, where you like can understand that things can change, but it does take like a big group of people because there’s only so many people that own so much ETH and can vote with it, right? So I think there’s a lot of valid points everywhere. Um, I think the biggest thing is just the fact that like people are now understanding that L2s aren’t like fully safe. I think that’s a conversation that was had, you know, a year ago.

20:31BI think that got big as well. And I think it’s a great conversation now where it’s like, uh, Base also in that time announced that they were gonna Explorer, a network token. I don’t think -- I don’t know what, what the thought process behind that was, but there’s a lot of different things that have changed since then. And I think it’s been really interesting to see other like L1s pop up that like can rival different things that Ethereum has its con in, but don’t still have that. Nothing has the pro of, you know, Ethereum being like -- Swarthy had it, he hit it on the nail on the head on the second episode of like it being the only DAO that’s out there.

20:31BAnd then maybe Bitcoin being the only like decentralized asset that’s out there. So it’s, it’s an interesting conversation because like, what would you, would you rather, if you were one of those people that got the money, would you be complaining?

22:10ALike, absolutely.

22:10BThat’s always my thought process.

22:12ALike, what’s a good question?

22:14BLook at a bunch of different perspectives. I mean, are you if you’re pro like security and decentralization and these things, and it’s like, I don’t know.

22:23CWell, to that point, I mean, go ahead, go ahead.

22:28BI, I just don’t know enough about Arbitrum, right? Like, for me, like, it hasn’t been a big enough impact for me to actually understand, to look into how it works, because I don’t have a lot of money there. I’ve only ever used it for a couple of dApps and less than $50 total, right? Because that’s just not something I’ve seen a lot of things through. So I guess I just don’t have the background on like how it actually works and what the ecosystem is like. Because if the ecosystem is like a very big, like, right, like decentralized, like, okay, we’re saying like we’re doing XYZ things and we’re not, then it’s a whole different ballgame, right? And I think that can happen sometimes as well. What were you gonna say, B?

23:06CMost definitely. Let’s see. Well, first, I, I guess I do stand corrected. It’s a mainnet launch to 2021. Um, so I mean, it’s not old, but not --

23:17AOkay, I was only 1 year off. It was like 3, 4 years off.

23:21COkay, there you go.

23:22AI think there weren’t any L2s, right? Like, L2s were brand new in 20 -- I remember when I got into crypto, like, oh, L2s are coming, right? That’s what I was saying on our last talk, right? So I was like, like, I don’t know what it was before it wasn’t L2, but it could have been like Polygon. Polygon have their own chain, right? So I, um, yeah, that’s all I meant, but But no, I think the point you make, Paul, is a really good one, right? Because is decentralization just about technology or is it really about decision-making? And I think the decision-making component is a critical one to highlight. And if I got my money back, I wouldn’t be pissed.

23:54BYeah, and like, you could be upset that there’s only 7 people making that decision or however many people the Security Council is, right? But that’s like what it is and that’s what the rules are for that environment. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to play in that environment. That’s kind of the beauty of crypto. Also, if you don’t like any of the environments, you can create your own environment and that’s getting easier and needs for each day. Back in the day, you would have to, like, let’s say, mine Bitcoin to do anything, like, in the space. And then slowly over time, you’ve been able to do more and more things with less and less compute, like, in your capabilities.

23:54BAnd I think that’s been really powerful of, like, okay, like, now people that have access to just the internet can also have access to things that some people that have had the internet for 20 years haven’t been able to access, like, the ability to cross money -- send money across borders, like, in, in and of itself is, is crazy powerful in what it is today, as opposed to all the people talking about a lot of different pieces of speculation. So it’s just, uh, an awesome space, and is excited to be here with you guys talking about, like, some of these decision-making things, because that’s something that I’ve been, like, very focused on.

23:54BAnd, like, another thing that just passed today was nouns. DAO had recently a proposal that passed that moved the, uh, starting bid price to something over an ETH. And I don’t know what exactly that is, but I saw a message today that that hasn’t been hit since like the last couple years, right? So I think that’s another interesting decision-making place where like it got so big that it was very hard to keep track of everything.

25:35AMm-hmm.

25:36BBecause it started in a phase where while everything was technically transparent, you had to have some really high technical capabilities to actually look into things. But now with AI, that’s changed. So I think the power of creating things now is super powerful because if you keep that in mind of that, like, ability to use that ability to query and transparency, but like actually be able to do something about it as opposed to just being on-chain and being data that’s out there, it can be really powerful if you use it to your, like, if you set yourself up for success, right? Like plan in any way, shape, or form.

25:36BAnd I think that can be really powerful. And you wanna, in the space being so volatile, be able to plan to pivot, to be agile, right? Like to have a community and a group of people and a culture that when something does shift, not just the hype around a concept in like a day-to-day sense, but the technology shifts and people are building in a different way and people are using and leveraging different workflows. Trying to be able to help move that and knowledge share along that path, I think, is the other, like, optimization and coordination are the other kind of 2 things that Web3 kind of bring in decentralization and Ethereum as a whole kind of brings to the conversation.

25:36BSo it’s just exciting. It’s -- I don’t think anyone’s perfected it, right? Like, in that, like, Arbitrum’s not a DAO, right? Like, it’s just L2, right? But like, that’s it. Now DAO is a DAO, and that’s kind of a problematic proposal to end up getting through. But then there’s other DAOs that have recently also just like gotten rocked. So I think it’s a very interesting conversation that you can have around having governance tied to liquid tokens. And I think that’s kind of one of the cool things that I was able to see in the Fractal Network. And that’s why I built on top of that with the DAO Fractals.

25:36BAnd I think that governance coordination is governance coordination and conversation is just so powerful. So yeah, I don’t know what, what is right. I don’t think anyone solved it.

27:40CAnd hey, that’s where, you know, Vitalik himself is ahead of the curve again. You know, on his latest rants or whatever, he was talking about governance and how we’re gonna have to use AI because people can’t keep up. They can’t keep track of all the issues, everything that’s going on, all these proposals and different things. So it’s gonna be interesting to see how this experiment keeps evolving and innovating and changing. And, you know, we’re gonna be here right along the ride to, uh, explain it to you guys though. Yeah, right along with it.

28:11AI wanted to ask, what’s the other thing? You mentioned there was another hack. So you’re saying the, the Arbitrum one is one and this Aave thing, they’re 2 separate things?

28:19CNo, Z was saying it’s the same thing.

28:21AOkay, but is there another big thing that happened this week? You’re saying that’s the Nouns thing?

28:25BVercel and Lovable both had data breaches as well.

28:28AOh, interesting. I didn’t know that. So what is -- what are the implications of that? Like, what is a Vercel? For my mom who doesn’t know that, but maybe will watch this, what is a Vercel?

28:41BYeah, well, great question. Vercel is a free cloud hosting platform that lets people put their websites up as URLs that other people can click instead of code just being on someone’s local machine. A lot of people use it because they have a generous free tier of people being able to try things out. And then after they get a certain amount of traffic, they have to pay. So a lot of people use Vercel in this fiber coding world especially, but even just people building new apps because it’s super powerful and it’s a company that essentially runs your cloud for -- runs a cloud service for your website.

28:41BAnd you could run that in your own house, in your own server, but there’s a lot of benefits to being on the cloud and having that accessibility. But a lot of, like, super cypherpunk people would be against that and want to have their own server running in their own house, right? So it’s always a blend of where you want to be on that spectrum, I think. And I think all 3 of us coming in on the media angle have to be somewhere in the middle and closer to the normie side because you want to kind of target Uh, people that don’t actually understand what the technology is and trying to find ways to make that conversation happen, right?

28:41BAnd have them understand that the problems that are there at play, some of their solutions, uh, could lie in blockchain, but it needs to be thought out more. It needs to be brainstormed.

30:07AHmm. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

30:10BI want to share something here today because I want to share something if we make a token at some point, because you had mentioned way back when --

30:16AA token?

30:18CA token?

30:20BIf we were to make a token at some point, one of the cool things you can do with tokens is here. And this is the homies, uh, Clanker, uh, which is Empire Builder. Um, I made a Zimbal Empire at the beginning of the year, uh, with this express purpose of being able to distribute funds through the token. And essentially what I’m Actually, let me explain here first.

30:45AWell, you put money in this and then you can send out money to people.

30:48BIt’s a treasury.

30:50AIt’s a --

30:50Bso what Empire Builder is, is the ability to take a token and give it utility. So you have the ability to first add it, have a treasury, and distribute from that treasury. But then you can also create different leaderboards with different boosters. So I have, um, a couple other tokens here. My Zora token, my newsletter token, and these all give you boosters on the leaderboard. So you can see Ohnahji is number 2 here because he has 11.5 leaderboard, and then the rest of the leaderboard is all based on the amount of tokens you hold. So, um, this is the basic one, but then you can add in other leaderboards, right?

30:50BSo I created an API leaderboard here as well where for every vote you do on the mini app, it’s actually going to add one to this live when you press update. So there’s things we could do in here all together playing around with this, but one of the really cool things is once you do add money to the treasury and something there, you can pick on a leaderboard. So I’m doing my Forecaster Only Zabal leaderboard, and I’m gonna do a raffle of the top 100 people. I’m gonna pick 10 random people. So this is something powerful you can do instead of having to like spin a wheel and do that as your process.

30:50BYou’re actually being able to -- this one’s random, but you can also split it by the amount that a person has of that token as well. So one of the things I really like about Farcaster is because you shared this with the Farcaster-only leaderboard, when you share it on Farcaster, it’ll actually tag all of those individuals.

32:22AHmm, that’s sick.

32:24BPretty cool. So I’m gonna put it in the Let’s Talk About Web3 channel. I’m gonna say ZM Just showed off Empire Builder on the Let’s Talk About ETH stream. Got a chance to distribute some of them all, right? So the nice thing is it posts all that. It actually says how much we’ve distributed of all time and how much we’ve burned all time and how much the treasury balance is, and you can just cast.

33:03AOh, okay, that’s good.

33:06CPretty sick, man.

33:07BAnd that tags all those individuals, which is why I like doing 10. And it’s, uh, pretty cool.

33:12ALet’s go see -- let’s talk about -- let’s go see the Let’s Talk About ETH channel. Take us there. Click on it.

33:17BOh, this was the wrong one. My bad. I need to delete this or deprecate it. I don’t know.

33:25AUm, it’s okay.

33:26BWow. Okay, well this is the right one.

33:30AOkay, I like you put the logo in. Oh, it’s cool. You’ve been co-casting into the channel.

33:35BSee, that’s what I was just recently, but we need to get gifts also posted into the channel.

33:40AYeah, yeah, but I think it’s good you’ve been doing that. I was telling Swarthy to do that with his IYKYK channel. I’m like, yeah, I think it’s good because it gets me retweets. And I’m like, my whole channel is just me no matter what. So like, what do you want me to be the only person in your channel? Yeah, it’s like. You just got to make your channel look interesting. You’re curating a feed. So --

33:56BBut I love Empire Builder for that reason. There’s just a lot of opportunity there for adding utility to something that’s existing that’s out there.

34:04AMaybe -- You’re the master of incentives. I’m pointing everybody at you. Where’s the money?

34:08BWell, yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. It’s like everyone uses incentives for a lot of different things. I think it’s really powerful to find a good way to bring those things together. And, um, one of the things I’ve been thinking about more recently is creating a couple app tokens with Clanker, especially after the conversation with Dish yesterday. Um, and, and hearing more about the background of Clanker and how they built it. Um, it was a really cool --

34:35AI don’t know anything about anything you’re saying right now.

34:37CYeah.

34:38BSo Dish is the founder of Clanker and I had him on my Better Calls All YApps podcast episode yesterday, which was awesome. Uh, we got a chance to dive more into Clanker and how it was created and like the history of it and, uh, and where they’re going with it. And it’s just a really powerful platform. A lot of people have tried to do token launchers and haven’t gotten like a good successful, um, creation. And Clanker has done a good job, even though someone tried to clank a Better Calls All Yaps token today. So there is one out there, but it has no trades on it.

34:38BRight. And now it’s gotten me to think maybe I should just do it and send it. Right. But, um, the idea behind Clanker is making token, uh, creating easier. And the powerful thing there is they do an initial setup of portions of the initial purchases going towards a liquidity pool automatically. There’s the benefit of like understanding that a lot of, you can trust a Clanker if you know that it’s kind of coming from that platform in the sense of like some other platforms as well, like you could trust because it’s coming from a specific platform, like those contracts have been audited as well. It’s not just any old contract address from any old, uh, developer.

34:38BSo, uh, I think it’s super powerful in a lot of different ways, but, uh, there’s always limitations, right?

36:00CHmm.

36:00BUm, but I think they’re building a lot of amazing things on that like base layer of like Farcaster, especially because Farcaster bought it. So now it’s like a token within Farcaster, well, which now NAYNAR has bought.

36:16AOh, Farcaster bought Clanker?

36:18BYeah, before the acquisition.

36:21AI didn’t know that. I did not know that at all. I didn’t know it was like a Farcaster native like tool or application. I like that a lot.

36:27BWell, it isn’t.

36:28AOh.

36:28BIt is and it isn’t, right? Like it was purchased by Farcaster in the last like 3, like 6 months.

36:37ASo what does that mean?

36:38BSo like, it’s not natively integrated in it, but they can -- they have the rights to do that now.

36:44ABut do they capture the fees or like they control it as opposed to like a -- like an industry?

36:49BJust recently, they just started getting all the fees as of like the last 2 weeks actually, because the deal finally closed. And there is a Clanker ecosystem fund that a portion of that is going to the stewards of the fund, who are the 2 founders of GM Farcaster, uh, Nownish Prof and Adrian, who are going to be kind of stewarding, moving the dollars that were previously going to buybacks towards, uh, Farcaster ecosystem projects as a whole, right? Like, just to try and help bolster the ecosystem and the people who are building here and who like building here, I think. And it’s really cool to see the initiative to try and support builders in different ways.

36:49BI think there’s been a lot of different ways people have tried to do that. And, um, It’s really interesting because I like trying it at our small scale of this now. I like iterating on different things because we have the luxury of being able to pivot really fast. But look, platforms like Farcaster and some of these other things, you know, like they got acquired and it took like 3 months to actually have the papers go through. So different organizations that are bigger can’t pivot as quickly. So it’s cool to see everyone iterating on different parts of that. A lot of different ways. So the tech’s here, like, we can, we can, we can do it.

36:49BSo I’m excited to just try out, uh, try out seeing what’s like -- I think trying to find ways that we can show the workflow of what you’re kind of building, especially in trying to do, um, can always be super powerful because if you can just like work on educating folks, whether that be through like conversations with different perspectives from different people around the world, which I think is so powerful, Maseo, or daily conversations with people all over the world, which Onajebee does every single day. It’s just super exciting to hear what different people have to say and kind of knowledge share more than anything and like be open to that potential of someone with a completely different perspective thinking a way and not being against like the idea of it being, uh, a way that that person, uh, enjoys to spend their life, right?

39:03AAbsolutely, absolutely. I think it makes a big difference. Like, you know, I’m a discourse maxi. No matter what the shape or form is, let’s just talk more. Let’s talk more. Let’s talk about ETH. Let’s talk about breakfast, lunch, dinner, you know, safety, money, insecurity, family, all the above, emotions, art. Music, the tokens, the launchers, the forecasters, the users, the producers, the consumers, the capitalists, the aristocrats.

39:32COne of the interesting things, you know, um, that I’ve been like kind of noticing in myself and other folks is just, you know, in this, in this emerging tech AI era that we’re in, this vibe coding, this evolution, you know, I, I think about digital goods and digital products and platforms and just software differently as a whole now. Like, I think about it more mathematically and more like code-based now. And I don’t know, you know, if that’s me way late to the, to the code party, um, but I think like, you know, as, as somebody who was just like on the creative side, an artist or whatever, didn’t really -- knew a little bit about code, dabbled here and there over the years, but now it’s like -- You know, even, even you’re showing me those different, like the clanker builds and different things like that and how, you know, you just have like just the randomize button to, to go to folks.

39:32CAnd I’m thinking like, ooh, how, how could I code that? How could the code do that? How is that working code? And I think that’s a cool little thing cuz I think a lot more, you know, diversity of thought is going into software and we’re gonna see more of that as well too, especially the way you’re tackling it, Z. Um, just like building software and like You know, I see through was, was kind of a key piece. He was just like, you know, I was like, I don’t know what to build. I don’t know what to make. He’s just like, well, just make the stuff that, you know, either you’re paying for right now, try to clone that, or the stuff that you can’t afford.

39:32CYou know what I’m saying? There’s -- now we’re in an era where, you know, you can make your own tools and different things like that. So I think, and I know, you know, you’ve always been ahead of the curve, you know, the engineering background, all that good stuff. And I even I’m tying that together now, ’cause I always, you know, I used to talk in the beginning, like, you’re the leaderboard king, you know, but a lot of those experiments are fruitful and paying off. And, you know, you see the value in tying like that incentive and that leaderboard and that, you know, that contribution on-chain and visible contribution, tying that into Web3 and into coins and into all that good stuff.

39:32CEven if it’s just like the Soulbound -- illiquid tokens and different things like that. It’s like you’re experimenting on all those sides. And, you know, it’s really kind of cool just to have that light bulb moment to be like, okay, I kind of see what software is doing now. And before I was just like a user, a consumer, you know what I mean? And it’s kind of cool having that switch. So, yeah.

42:01BThat’s really interesting to think about it instead of the content angle, but from the software angle, because I haven’t ever thought about that, because a lot of people have made that flip with content, but I think it’s super powerful with software as well. Hell yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. It’s been really exciting. Like, I think the communities that all kind of emerge between the 3 of our communities can be really powerful. So I’m excited to manifest this, you know, second trip to India this year. I got a lot of ideas. I definitely need to get cooking here in the gym. In the gym, in the, uh, in the studio. But I got a lot of, a lot of ideas that I think we could leverage in fun different ways. So, um, yeah.

42:43ASchedule a time right now. We should schedule a time to kind of like, like plan or investigate, explore what that looks like. Um, even if, uh, it’s just you and I, I’m like busy at school. If he’s at work, imagine me. And, uh, even if he’s busy, right, I’m game to meet. We could even go live and chat it out, figure things out. But Yeah, let’s definitely schedule a time for sure. Oh, he said he said we can’t do that kind of stuff on stream.

43:08BThat’s not if you want. I gotta pop here in a couple minutes anyway, so it might be a good opportunity to call it here.

43:17ANo, no, no. I um what was I? I was thinking something. I was thinking something. What was I thinking? He called you the leaderboard king. And so I’m curious, like, B, like, like, while you’re pulling, while you’re figuring out time, right, um, what do you think, what are some of the highlights of your, your, how you see his leaderboard exploration, right? I haven’t done a whole lot to think about that actively, like, how do I reward people who are engaging with my stuff on-chain? I’m just like, one day I’ll get there and I’ve done enough things that people will have done, participated in things that I like, but I haven’t really considered how do I build, you know, those opportunities around my brand. So I’m curious, like, B, how do you see what he’s been doing and like what’s worked and what’s not worked? What do you think is interesting? What’s your opinion?

43:58CI mean, from, uh, uh, you know, on a just a couple minutes, maybe like a 1-minute real quick spiel before we get up out of here. Um, I think it’s super cool just because like I was talking about it this morning in the, you know, the daily stream, the 10 AM PSTs, and I was like, you know, I like -- I really kind of like helping the homies or my family, friends, whoever around me just like help collaborate and build whatever they’re trying to go after. And, you know, I’ve always kind of been like that, and I think it is really cool to have like that leaderboard structure, because on the selfish angle, I’m on the top of a lot of them. So it’s really kind of cool just to see that, like, and that’s kind of a motivator in itself. It’s like, okay, cool. Like, um, what else are you building? What else can I, you know, contribute to? And oh, that’s tied into this and I’ll get points for helping you beta test this. Let’s go. So I mean, yeah, I, I love it, man. I think it’s groundbreaking and cool.

44:50BThe one thing I do -- well, 2 things I did want to do, if we can do this in somehow 5 minutes, um, I think we should try and start highlighting like a founder or a community that we are like super bullish on instead of like a lot of people go with tokens. I think it’s really powerful to like talk about a community or a founder and we could each either pick one, one week or something, but like have like a 1 to 2 minute like highlight on them kind of planned a little bit. I think that could be really powerful. And then The second thing I wanted to say is on that is like one of my weaknesses, and I think it’s super powerful to try and figure out ways to start mitigating your weaknesses in different capacities, is the amount of things that I want to build and want to do, but I have tribal knowledge in my head that isn’t actually explained out for someone to capture if they’re interested in something that I’m doing.

44:50BSo that’s something I need to work on. So I think that could be something powerful we could rock around the room of like, what’s something you think in your day-to-day that’s something that you think you, uh, could work on because it’s one of your weaknesses?

45:53CWell, I can go first for the show. Hey, for me, it’s probably the scheduling aspect, you know. That’s when my, my creative brain just -- for the moment, let’s go outside, take a walk, get inspired type of vibe, you know. But, uh, yeah, I think for me -- but building, being able to build tools, being able to, you know, help have folks share different tools that either they’re building, they’re finding, that are free tools that can help me get, you know, a little bit more organized and stuff like that is a super key helpful piece for me. So, you know, that’s probably my biggest weakness at this point, but I wear that. What about you, Zeb?

46:34AI was gonna say, I mean, you’re in -- I’m in great company then because I’m in the same boat. Like, you guys see me, I’m coming, I’m here, where -- like, where’s Maceo, right? Like, I feel like 5 out of 7 commitments a day, like maybe 2 years ago, 5 out of 7 commitments a day I’d be late. I feel like now I’m teetering on 1 to 2. So I’m seeing some growth, but right now I’m really trying, like my thing I have open right now in Claude is like me trying to map out all my calls and commitments for my class, for We Dem Media stuff, for how do I make sure I show up prepared to things, how do I make sure I leave gaps after my calls so that I can do async things, because Swathi told me that I schedule things, too many things back to back, and then I’ll do it later turns into like, I never did the thing and it’s due tonight.

46:34AAnd like, I need to have it done like now. And I feel guilty and ashamed and overwhelmed and angry. And I just want to close my laptop and go on a walk and feel inspired. So I feel like I’m in that same boat, but maybe a bit different of a context. So I would say for me, that’s probably one of the biggest things that I struggle with. And, you know, that’s why I’ve tried to recruit, right, these teammates so I can kind of start to delegate more and scale back what I’m actually responsible for. And as opposed to doing You know, all the clipping for my videos, you know, I can have, you know, 2 30-minute conversations a week with Fidesio and hear where he’s at with stuff, you know, or 2 with Gifts and hear where she’s at with the socials.

46:34AOr Marissa’s coming in actually now to help with like project management. And so ideally I only have to do 2 with Marissa and she does those other 2 with those people. So it scales me back from having to do, you know, 4 calls and 6 calls and 8 calls to, you know, having someone who I know is going to make sure we have the conversations to make sure team members are supported. and things are actually happening with, you know, all of us having peace of mind. So I would say just really trying to learn how to execute at the team level, right, with consistent, you know, with consistency, you know, integrity, and just like, you know, accountability that where nobody feels shamed or guilted or unappreciated.

46:34ABecause I think it’s easy, especially with no money, I think for people to feel unappreciated. So I’m really trying to keep that all in check and make sure I’m holding up my end of the bargain, right, of showing up and doing what I say I’m going to do. So at least like, you know, people feel like I’m not standing -- I have -- they feel like I have somewhere to stand, right? And they see what I’m really standing for and committed to. But I would say just being in communication when I drop the ball versus hiding or, you know, avoiding dealing with it, you know, that’s it.

46:34AThis shit is -- it just throws a wrench in everything else I’m up to. So I would say right now I’m trying to work on, you know, just taking responsibility for where I dropped the ball as fast as possible, because I think, um, you guys have seen firsthand we don’t have a lineup of guests. And we did, so I think I can do some avoiding sometimes, right? But I think I’m having way more peace of mind just planning out my time and knowing that I have teammates I can count on, even just to some degree this week versus last week. I felt like I’m home and I’m behind and I’m like not even settled and I didn’t eat breakfast yet and I have things I need to do and I’m falling asleep with my laptop next to me.

46:34ALike, I’m just stepping -- I’m trying to be an organized 26-year-old by the end of this summer. Really by the end of next month, but I’m giving myself some grace. And just this kind of conversation make a difference for me. So I, um, yeah.

49:30CHell yeah.

49:32BNo, I appreciate that. Uh, I saw IC3 came in the building. WI. Uh, yeah, no, appreciate, uh, all those answers. It’s definitely, I think, a powerful thing to, to think about and find ways to -- like, the best thing I found in Web3 was finding people that were good at things that I wasn’t good at and being their best friend, because why not help them out to help you out and kind have this helpful cycle of being able to help other people with something you’re good at and let other people help you with things that they’re better at as well. So, um, I think it’s kind of that win-win situation, but you have to be able to share and barter like that. I mean, in the last thousands of years, we’ve been accustomed to money being that transitory piece, but it could be anything. So.

50:19AYeah, I think it’s, um, it’s a lot easier, right, after having spent a couple months in Africa last year for me to be able to think about like, how do I honor my teammates without feeling like I’m exploiting them? And I think me not having any income, I think we’re more on a level playing field than when I was getting money from CY and stuff like that. And I feel like now I know what tangibly makes a difference, right? Like, I can send them, you know, $20, you know, this weekend. I know it makes a big difference for them. And that’s like, you know, it’s not an arbitrary amount of money to me because it’s like that times, you know, a number of people.

50:19ABut I know that like it goes a long way inside of what I’m up to. And we’re just thinking about, like, in the long term, right, what are wages that would make sense, right? And how do I make sure my team can be honored and that they know my goal is, like, overhead for months so they have job security, you know? And them helping me execute right now proves that we can actually -- we’re a thing worth funding, a team worth funding versus, like, a team that, you know, we can speculate on. So I appreciate it. I’m excited to be cooking here.

51:13CLove it. I love it. Nah, hey. W stream. That’s a solid, solid fireside number two. I dig it. Shout out to all the family that came through. Candy Toy Box in the building. Icy threw in the building. Yes. Although we got we got a bunch of goats watching on the back end as well too. Over on X and YT, man. It was another solid, solid space today for sure. So yeah, let’s talk about ETH around the world. Fireside chat number two, y’all.

51:47AOh yeah, back again.

51:49CAll right, W Stream, y’all be good. Have a good rest of the day. We’re out of here. Peace.

51:53APeace.