Mental Health, Spirituality, Race and Body Shaming, With Julia and Alessia | We Them EP 4

0:00Maceo: Hello, welcome to the We Them Niggas podcast. Today I’m here with Alessia, Julia, and Drew, some frequent friends of the 407 residence and company. You know, booyah.

0:11Julia: I’m Julia.

0:12Alessia: I’m Alessia.

0:14Drew: I’m Drew. I’m also now staring at your little mic input.

0:19Maceo: That’s okay, it is what it is.

0:27Alessia: Shee!

0:28Maceo: Exactly. So I guess we can start off talking about the N-word, like, or you can talk about yourself, Alessia. Like, I don’t know, you guys can give like more of an intro. Like, I don’t really have honestly a clear-cut vision for how it works, you know?

0:42Drew: I need to listen to the, to the catalog of -- I have, I have like no knowledge of what this podcast -- yeah, what is this podcast?

0:50Alessia: Can we ask you a question? What is this What’s the goal?

0:54Drew: What’s the purpose? Why are we in the room together?

0:56Julia: Icebreaker, everyone says what they think of the N-word and then it progresses.

1:03Drew: Is there a jingle after?

1:04Alessia: I know a really funny icebreaker game. It’s funny.

1:10Maceo: So I can tell you, you can ask me questions, that’s fine. I’d rather you ask me serious questions though.

1:15Alessia: That was a serious question.

1:17Maceo: No, no, I’m not talking about serious shit. Don’t even be concerned. Hey. People gonna come after. That was like more so what I was referring to. But I think like for me, the We Them Niggas podcast, like I was saying earlier before we started recording, is that for me, the We Them Niggas podcast is a, I don’t know, piece of content. It’s kind of like my foray into journalism. I think it’s like a way for me to explore like what the N-word means to people in society, different people, and also an opportunity for For me to hear people have to say. I feel like people police each other when it comes to racism, like who can and can’t say the N-word. But I feel like oftentimes a lot of other things that don’t go really -- they don’t receive as much energy or attention as that conversation. And I think it’s like there are more important conversations to be had, I think, than really who can and can’t say the N-word sometimes. And I think that we kind of forego those conversations too frequently. Uh, for a very brief one about who can I can’t say the N-word, which is kind of like -- which is kind of --

2:22Drew: keep going.

2:22Maceo: That’s not so great.

2:29Alessia: Anyway, I’m sorry, I messed it up.

2:30Maceo: No, you’re fine. I mean, I was just saying, I think that for me, the We Them Niggas podcast is an opportunity to have a constructive conversation about the N-word and give people an opportunity to say what they think about it. I feel like a lot of people are like, you can’t say it, you can say it. Yeah. I think some people are just afraid to say it, but like, what are they afraid of? Why are they afraid? Why do people not want -- some people just not to say the N-word? I think it’s just like a lot of different, different views people have on it, and I think a lot of them are incomplete. And so I think this is an opportunity to kind of just go about creating a more comprehensive conversation in one place about it. And I like the idea, you know, that We Them Niggas -- I used to like YBN Namir, his song says, I’m that nigga, I won’t ever change. I was like, oh, I like that. I feel like it’s like a positive attitude. It’s like, he is this dude, he’s resilient. That’s just kind of like what he’s saying. I like that a lot. And I feel like a similar sentiment can be said about multiple people. And so We Them Niggas, I feel like It’s not a self-centered enterprise, but rather one about community and about people. And if I want to have that be what I want to build a brand around, I think having constructive conversation be, you know, how I start that, I think makes a lot of sense. And so this is my foray into journalism, and I think there’s a lot of other things to talk about, but I think if I’m going to have this be the name, this is the place to start in terms of the conversations I want to be having.

3:52Julia: Yeah, definitely.

3:56Alessia: I agree.

3:57Maceo: So what do you guys think about the word nigger? What’s that word like for you in your life? When did it first show up?

4:03Alessia: Um, so for me, I remember I was in 4th grade and it first showed up in a book, and the person didn’t say the word and I didn’t know what it meant. But I didn’t say anything. So that was like the first time I saw it, so I kind of got a connotation like, okay, this is a word I shouldn’t use. But I didn’t really find out what it meant until I got older because I was at such a young age. I kind of inferred because it was a book about racism, but that was kind of my first encounter with it. I don’t know, I feel like as I’m older I feel like the word should obviously only be used in a good way, and it should be used in a salvatory way because it has a terrible history and a terrible past associated with it. And I really like how, like, the Black community is definitely trying to take the word back, and I find that beautiful to be like, you can’t define us by this. Like, it’s going to be our word and it’s going to mean a good thing.

5:17Julia: Yeah.

5:18Alessia: So I guess, yeah.

5:19Julia: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

5:22Maceo: Um, thank you, Alessia.

5:24Julia: Yeah, thank you, Alessia. Um, I definitely don’t think as like -- it’s not a socially acceptable thing to say, especially. And I kind of feel weird, like, I really appreciate you opening up this space and having this conversation because it’s honestly one that I never would have had otherwise. And as a white female, it’s nerve-wracking to be talking about it, and then I have to think like, oh, like, why am I so nervous about having this conversation? And I definitely agree with what Alessia was saying, that I really love how the Black community is reclaiming the word and using it in a celebratory way, and I think that’s the only way that it should be used. Um, but then I also kind of think about how If like you’re celebrating these Black artists and you’re not using it in a way that’s horrible, like calling people names or like using it to refer to people, especially if you aren’t of that race. I think that if you were to sing it like in the shower and if you’re like celebrating those artists Then I think that that would be okay because you’re using it in a positive sense, um, and you’re not using it in, um, that horrible, um, manner that brings other people down and adds to the horrible history around it. But yeah, it does make me nervous though. to go back to what I was saying before, because there’s -- I just, I feel like, like, who, like, who am I to be speaking on this? And does my voice, like, really add to the conversation?

7:44Maceo: Yeah.

7:45Julia: And I guess that, um, the word first came up for me, um, in Huckleberry Finn, and I think it was middle school where we read that book, and we didn’t say it, we just like went over it, and we never really had a discussion. It was always just like, like I asked my friends and they were like, oh no, like don’t say that, and my parents would be like, oh, don’t say that. And then in high school, like that’s when I was more educated on it. I went to a Quaker high school, Mm-hmm. um, and that’s where they like, they dove more into these topics. And I was really able to like understand and have a more filled-in background of like how it was used and what it meant. So yeah, that’s why it makes me nervous to be talking about it, but I think it’s a really -- Um, I think it’s a really interesting topic and possibly one that needs to be had if there is to be a future of, of change surrounding the word like you’ve been talking about.

9:04Maceo: No, I agree, and I appreciate you just saying how you feel about it. I think the vulnerability is appreciated.

9:13Julia: Yeah.

9:14Maceo: I think like the, like the shower like conversation, like I agree with, like I feel like, yeah, you can police people like in a public room, but like you’re not gonna tell someone, like there’s no one to say that.

9:22Alessia: If you’re by yourself, yeah.

9:24Maceo: And so it’s like, to what degree are you like just getting people to abide by it when they’re in certain kinds of spaces? And then once again, like, like what are people’s reasons for not saying it? And is it like just because you’re afraid of what consequences might be and like bring people down? But I feel like that’s like an abstract concern to have. And I feel like, I don’t know, people’s concerns are probably different when they don’t want people to say it then, something so abstract, I think, as well. And I don’t really know, honestly. Like, my stance is kind of like, people can say it. Like, I’m not bothered if you say it around me. And so it’s like, some people are, and they’re gonna ask not to say it around them, and that’s fair. But like, I really don’t care. You’re gonna say it if I’m not around. I don’t have to like police you about when you’re around me in the first place. Um, instead of having to, you know, just be more intentional about asking people like, or in what other places do they actively care? You know, I don’t care if you do or don’t say the N-word. I think there’s like a thousand other things you can be like knowledgeable about than just who is and who isn’t, who can or who can’t say the N-word. Yeah. So it’s like, I don’t know. I agree with you. People are gonna do it, I think, like, they’re gonna feel good about it. And like, I like rap music so much, like, I don’t mind. I remember that’s like kind of my first stance. It’s kind of like, if someone said you can’t say the N-word, like, I feel like I’d be devastated. Like, I was at like the launch conference downtown at the Marriott over the weekend, I was telling you guys. Yeah. And like, I was talking to some people about the name of my podcast, and he was like, people told me I couldn’t say it. He’s like, this is the chorus, this is the chorus.

10:56Alessia: Oh.

10:57Maceo: And I was like, yeah, like that’s kind of like my mood about it. I feel like, why would you want to stifle someone’s ability to like appreciate like something, like get involved? It’s like if you made like a dance move like, like off limits.

11:08Julia: Yeah, I think, um, just like --

11:12Maceo: I think too much for step, the dance move comment.

11:14Julia: Yeah, yeah. Um, just like in middle school and high school, I think that that never really was like an option or discussion to be had. So I just like, I never even thought of that.

11:31Maceo: Yeah,

11:34Julia: of like, like what you were just saying.

11:38Maceo: You just mean like in terms of like where people still say it, you mean? Or like More?

11:51Julia: Um, my words are failing me at the current moment.

11:55Maceo: It’s okay, it’s like really solo pressure.

11:57Julia: Um, I guess that it was just so like ingrained in me that you, you, you shouldn’t say it like, oh, like, be quiet, like you shouldn’t question it, like this word isn’t yours, um, and like it’s so wrong. I -- and there were no like discussions about like why or like -- Mhm. And, and people -- I would just like always see like videos on social media or like things of people Um, like, saying it and like what would happen, that I’m just like, oh, it’s just like not socially acceptable, it’s just something that like you do not do. Um, and so for me to think, um, if I’m like, oh, like learning a course about it, or like, oh, it’s like in this book, Or like, oh, it’s in this song. Like, it doesn’t even pop into my mind that like, like I’m allowed in a way, I guess. Excuse me. Because of, um, just all the prior conversations that I’ve had about it before.

13:18Maceo: That makes sense. But you also wanted to talk about moving to Alabama. We were talking about religion. Where do you want to start? I don’t know.

13:30Alessia: Um, I don’t know. I guess I’ll start with the move because I feel like that was the turning point in my life. My entire -- like, so I was born in Westchester, New York, about 30 minutes from the city, and I lived there like my entire life. And one day I’m told that I’m moving to Alabama. And I was terrified. I was like, I’ve never even moved before. I’m going to a different school. Like, I was so set in my ways. I had the same friends for years. And when I moved, it was just -- I could feel like I dressed different than people. Like, things were off. Things weren’t necessarily the same. Um, And it was just the environment. And I never realized how hard it would be, like, starting over and starting new. But I think I also realized, like, I get to start new. This is a chance where, like, I should make the best version of myself. But I definitely did struggle. I went through some depression and I went through some other stuff. But as terrible as it all was, I feel like I wouldn’t be the person that I am today without that happening. And I honestly wouldn’t take it back because I don’t think I’d be half as strong as I am right now if I didn’t have to go through all that crap.

15:07Maceo: Um,

15:08Alessia: so,

15:09Maceo: so what prompted you to move? Like, you were in 10th grade? You were in New York.

15:13Alessia: So my dad, um, his job, and like none of us wanted to go. He turned down the job 3 times and they kept coming to him, and he got laid off at IBM. So he was like, I need this, you know. It was a year that he didn’t have a job, and my mom cried every single day. And my mom is very religious and she believes in fate, as I really believe in fate as well. And my mom was on the plane crying the first time she went to Huntsville, and she was like praying, and she was like, God, like, please send me a sign. And there was a Kate Spade in the mall, and my dad goes to my mom, take a picture in front of it. And my mom turns behind her and it says, good -- goodbye New York, hello Huntsville. And my mom’s like, wow, this is a really obvious sign. Yeah.

16:08Maceo: Is it really obvious?

16:09Alessia: Like, this is an actual sign. So I definitely do feel like it was meant to be. And like, I don’t know, like, for anyone who’s going through a hard time now, like, I feel you. I’ve been there. But I truly believe that the hard times we go through really form the best of us as a person. they really help us mature, and they really help us gain a lot of insight. I just went on a tangent, but --

16:43Maceo: I mean, that’s okay though. So I guess moving to Huntsville, like, what were like the most difficult things? Like you said, it was like a transformative, like, part of your life.

16:53Alessia: Yeah.

16:54Maceo: What were like the most, like, striking differences? Like when you first got there, what were What were you thinking?

17:00Alessia: So I did theater probably since the age I was 6, and I had an outside theater group I’d always go to, and I was always entertained there. Well, Alabama didn’t have the same options as well as like voice lessons and like theater and all of that, so I like kind of had that missing, and I had like all these friends missing and like my creative outlet almost. And then it was a lot just like being in a different house and like having to like sell the house that like I grew up in and being in like this strange place. And I went to a private school and it was my sophomore year, so a lot of people came in as freshman year and everybody like already had their group. So it was just like challenging too in the social aspect, and the people are just different views. They act different. They tend to be less blunt than New Yorkers. So it was just like a different social scene as well. So there was just like a lot of anxiety about like, what if I do the wrong thing just because I’m not like them? And I actually feel like that experience did help me get over my social anxiety because I had to face it. And I had to realize, you know, like, just be yourself. And it’s like, as cliché as it sounds, if somebody doesn’t like you, then that’s their loss. Like, you, you need to stay true to yourself. You can’t be something else just to make other people happy. Like, if they don’t like you for who you truly are, they don’t deserve to be friends with you. And I think that’s like a big lesson I learned there too.

18:42Julia: I have a question for you. I’m just wondering, did anyone like, um, hold like you being from New York against you? Like, that’s kind of like a weird way to frame it, or were they like, Oh, like you’re from New York. Wow, that’s so interesting. Like, tell us about New York, because I grew up mainly in Pennsylvania and I always thought it was so cool when someone would tell me like, oh, I’m from California, or like Oh, I’m from this place that I’ve never been to, and I’m like, wow, like, what is your life like? That’s so interesting. Like, I want to know about you. And I was always like so jealous of that. So is that something you experienced?

19:22Alessia: Like, very few people were actually -- okay, so very few people were like, oh, what was it like? But like a lot of like my friends kind of like -- they’re very sarcastic, but they almost used it like in an insulting way. Like, oh, like, oh, that’s weird, you do that because you’re from New York. Or like, they’d always make fun of me and be like, I’m Alessia, I’m from New York, and be like, that’s your only personality trait.

19:48Julia: Like clothing?

19:49Alessia: Just like being from New York. Like, oh, I’m from New York, just like making fun of me, I guess. Because I guess like I would get to tell stories, be like, yeah, when I was back in New York, and like they kind of just like --

20:00Julia: That’s where you live.

20:01Alessia: And then so it was -- but like other people that I were around like were interested, but like that group, it was more more of like, oh, New York, it’s dirty there, it’s this.

20:10Julia: Interesting.

20:11Alessia: But they also had another person in the friend group who was from New York, so I think maybe they like already got their New York questions answered. I don’t know.

20:20Julia: Huh.

20:21Alessia: I don’t know.

20:24Julia: Yeah, that would not be my reaction at all.

20:25Alessia: No, so it was definitely like -- that was also weird too.

20:28Julia: Huh, okay.

20:31Alessia: Yes.

20:33Maceo: I’m like pressing buttons.

20:36Alessia: What are they doing?

20:37Maceo: That’s like -- I’m so uncertain. I’m going to pause.

20:46Alessia: Oh my god, it’s like 2 white bitches being like, ah, since when were you things?

20:51Drew: It’s actually very interesting as a perspective. I’ve never even considered like, how would it look like if Maseo wasn’t here?

20:58Alessia: Yeah, if he wasn’t here.

20:58Drew: Does it sound like we’re talking to a ghost? Does it sound like --

21:01Julia: Yeah, I wonder.

21:02Drew: Does it sound like we’re talking to each other most of the time? Like, there’s just weird -- there’s probably just very long pauses, actually. That’s probably what it is. Probably like really -- Alessia says something, really long pause. Julia says something, really long pause. And

21:16Alessia: you hear like, hi Drew, say like 2 words, pause.

21:21Drew: Yeah, it doesn’t sound like I’m talking to myself, actually. It just sounds like, I’m gonna pass. And then, and then someone else goes.

21:32Julia: Yeah, are we still rolling?

21:36Maceo: Oh yeah, I pressed, I pressed record now.

21:38Julia: Okay,

21:40Alessia: okay,

21:40Maceo: I am, uh,

21:41Julia: what’s the next? Religion?

21:44Alessia: I know you want to talk about religion too. No, you --

21:46Maceo: Well, I wanted to ask you a question also about like, it’s the We Them Niggas podcast. Like you were talking earlier about like racism in and around, uh, Huntsville, Alabama.

21:56Alessia: Yeah, so, um --

21:58Maceo: And so I was curious, like, I don’t know --

22:00Alessia: Yeah.

22:00Maceo: What that was like, I guess, moving into that space, also thinking about that. What was like -- what was novel? What was not novel? I don’t know, just like your perspective on it.

22:09Alessia: Yeah, so I guess I was raised very sheltered. I grew up in a like white suburban area in Westchester, New York. It was very cliché, very bubble-ish. I did not really have much exposure. And when I moved to Alabama, I went to a private school, so it was also primarily white. And I feel like I didn’t really have like my first like big, big exposure to like a lot of people until I came to college because I was just so sheltered. And when I moved to Alabama, um, there was nothing that like I really noticed too much. But my mom’s friend, she’s Black, and she says she feels comfortable in the city we’re in because the Space Center’s there, we have NASA, we have a Facebook data center, there’s a lot going on, so a lot of people are moving in. So she’s just telling me that she feels entirely comfortable in the city, but when she went 30 minutes out, there was the KKK and people were giving her uncomfortable looks. Oh my god. she just like was like, it was a little bit scary and like I wouldn’t really go back there alone if I had to. But I feel like, I don’t know if it’s just because like I’m so sheltered, but I feel like I haven’t really picked up on anything big where I’m from. I mean, there’s a few like Confederate flags. I’ve also seen like at work, like I used to work at Chick-fil-A and a lot of our managers were Black and we would see people not listening to the managers, especially the ones who were Black and a woman. They did not listen to them, and they were just like kind of acting like it didn’t really matter what they said. And I would like be there like on the side and like just feel terrible for these people. Like, they are management. They should be listened to like no matter what.

24:01Maceo: That makes sense. Yeah. Shout out to Aretha.

24:09Alessia: Aretha, she was my assistant manager. I thought

24:14Julia: you meant Aretha Franklin.

24:16Alessia: I knew, shout out to her too. Yeah, shout out to her too.

24:19Maceo: Shout out to her too.

24:21Julia: Shout out to Haribo gummy bears sponsoring the podcast today.

24:26Maceo: Certainly not, but I was thinking it’d be like really noisy to like start like eating them out of the bag, so I was like, after she stops talking, I’ll something I want on my desk.

24:36Alessia: Are

24:37Julia: we also doing some ASMR with gummy bears today?

24:40Maceo: Per request by Julia.

24:44Julia: I love ASMR.

24:45Alessia: Julia, would you like a gummy bear to do ASMR with?

24:47Julia: Yeah, I like -- it relaxes me. I’ll like watch it at night, or I’ll just like listen to it and put it on my pillow, and it’s so nice.

24:53Alessia: Really? I hate it.

24:55Julia: You just get like the head tingles, body tingles.

24:57Alessia: It makes me shake, like in a bad way.

24:59Julia: Well, there are different types There’s tons of ASMR triggers.

25:02Alessia: It just terrifies me.

25:04Julia: Maybe like one works for you and another doesn’t. Like there’s like nail taps, there’s like different types of sounds that you can do, there’s like visual ASMR as well, which is just like lights flashing different which ways and that.

25:18Alessia: It sounds terrifying.

25:19Julia: If it’s not for you, it’s not for you.

25:22Alessia: No, but I’m glad, I’m glad you enjoy it.

25:24Julia: I do.

25:25Alessia: What’s your favorite type of ASMR?

25:27Julia: Um, I like them all, I think.

25:30Alessia: If you had to pick a favorite?

25:31Maceo: Um, Drew, I’m taking a selfie.

25:39Alessia: Drew! Drew! I

25:45Maceo: like it.

25:46Julia: I know that there’s one that I actually don’t

25:50Alessia: like.

25:51Julia: I don’t really like it, and I think it’s like Like

25:56Alessia: chewing?

25:56Drew: You don’t like what?

25:58Julia: Degradation? Is that how you

26:00Drew: say the word?

26:01Alessia: Degrading?

26:01Julia: Yeah.

26:02Alessia: Like what?

26:03Julia: They’ll like say words to you.

26:06Alessia: To degrade you?

26:07Julia: To degrade you.

26:08Alessia: You

26:09Maceo: get verbal abuse ASMR? They do.

26:13Julia: And they’re like,

26:14Maceo: you’re

26:15Julia: so bitchy. Oh my God. And they’ll like -- and there’s like, there’s like fast trickers too where they talk to you really fast, but it’s like inaudible. And I don’t really like that as well because it’s just like -- or they do like your makeup super fast. I don’t really like that. I’m more into like the slow, relaxing.

26:32Alessia: Yeah, I don’t like the fast.

26:33Julia: Don’t say mean names. Don’t call me mean names ASMR. But yeah, there’s a lot of stuff out there. You should check it out if you’re interested.

26:41Maceo: Shout out ASMR.

26:44Alessia: Josie B ASMR is my favorite ASMR channel.

26:51Julia: You’re into that or want to explore. Are you okay, Maseo?

26:55Maceo: Yeah, I just like inhaled sugar from a Haribo gummy bear.

26:58Julia: Oh no,

27:01Alessia: not the Haribo gummy bear.

27:11Julia: That’s it, that’s a trigger. It’s a chew trigger.

27:14Alessia: I don’t -- I can’t listen to people chewing. No, you’re fine. I’m just saying like ASMR, I don’t want people to do that.

27:20Julia: That’s another one. This is another one. Does that sound good?

27:27Alessia: No.

27:27Maceo: It sounds clear though.

27:29Julia: Oh.

27:29Maceo: It’s a good microphone.

27:29Julia: That’s another one. Or brushing the microphone.

27:32Alessia: No.

27:33Maceo: We’re not, we’re not gonna do this. What’s the ASMR channel you were talking about?

27:36Julia: Josie B ASMR. It’s with a C, not an S.

27:40Maceo: Spell it out.

27:44Julia: C-I-E-B, the letter.

27:46Maceo: Go check out Josie B ASMR, guys.

27:49Julia: She’s awesome. Support her channel. She used to be a Florida native in Miami, and then she moved to, I think, Los Angeles. She’s in California.

28:00Alessia: Oh wow.

28:00Maceo: Well, we support you here, Josie.

28:03Alessia: Doing great things, Josie.

28:05Julia: Thanks, Josie. Love

28:06Alessia: you.

28:07Maceo: I love --

28:08Julia: Phenomenal woman.

28:09Maceo: Phenomenal. We like that word here.

28:10Alessia: Lovely.

28:11Maceo: What else? So you were also talking, Alessia, about like the differences in like body image standards when you moved from, from New York to Alabama.

28:25Alessia: Yeah. So -- What

28:26Maceo: was that like for us? Like, can you tell us about how it was like for you rather? Sorry.

28:29Alessia: Like, when I think about my childhood and where I grew up in New York, It was the most fucked up place. Like, I thought it was normal growing up there, but just looking at it, like, everybody was just -- I like to call it like a mini Beverly Hills, kind of. So like, people were like so fixated like with their self-image and fixated like with their money. And like, even in like second grade, there were kids like fighting about their money. And I just thought it was normal, but it really fucking wasn’t. And I guess, like, so when I was like in 7th, 8th grade, I started like to kind of like notice myself more and like what I looked like and people around me. And like everyone was like a stick, like very, very skinny. And I was like 115 and 5’2, so I was at a good weight. And I thought I was fat because these girls would be under 100 pounds, which weren’t healthy. And one of my close friends at the time, I caught her throwing up in the bathroom at lunch, and she lost -- she went to like 90 pounds, and she was about what I was. And it was like a normal, which was sad. I knew a lot of other people who were like that, but the most fucked up part about it was when this went to her friend’s house, the parents would say, you look so great, you should lose more weight. And they were kind of like promoting it, you know? And then like my other friend saw this girl getting praised, and then she started to lose weight, and she had to like go to a treatment center, and she’s still in recovery. And this was a while ago. Wow. And it was just like my self-image was super fucked up because even though like thankfully I never did fall down a path like that, even though I will say at times I was close because of the environment I was in. I still did feel terrible about myself. I considered myself fat. I thought you had to be under 100 pounds to be skinny, which is ridiculous. That is not healthy, and I totally realize that now. Um, but I think it’s definitely carried over with me because it was like something that was ingrained in me as a child. And when I moved, people were like, wow, you look great, like, you’re so skinny. And I was like, I don’t understand this, like, I don’t see it. And then like, I kind of realized like how fucked up these town standards were, and that like it’s normal and it’s healthy. Like, you shouldn’t be all bones, and like what these people are doing is wrong, and it’s -- they’re damaging the mental health of their kids. Trying to get them to this fake image. Like most, I was once touring a college and I sat in on a sociology class and the professor was saying that most of the models that we see in magazines, it’s like 10 different body parts from different people put together. What we’re seeing in these magazines aren’t even real. It’s not even possible to look that good and You know, you have these kids who were aspiring to look like that. Meanwhile, you’re already in a town where the parents are encouraging weight loss. Like, it’s a very toxic environment. So I’m honestly --

31:49Maceo: An irresponsible standard.

31:50Alessia: Yeah, and it just puts so much stress on these kids. Like, a lot of these kids were dealing with depression and anxiety, and I could see why. Um, even though their parents had money, it wasn’t a money thing. It was the environment around them. Um, but I guess when I moved, I kind of felt better about myself because I realized, like, why have I been putting all of this pressure on me? Like, just because a few people in this small town think something about me, why should I let that affect me? Like, there’s more to me. Like, this isn’t everywhere, like, these crazy body standards. Like, I need to be more supportive of myself and, like, be healthy. But like, even now, like, I did lose a lot of weight recently, and I’ve been trying to gain. And as I go up on the scale, there’s like a part of me that gets scared when it grows up -- like, goes up, even though I know it’s like what I need to do, and I need to gain another like 5 to 10 pounds. But it just terrifies me. And I just feel like things ingrained with you as a child, like, you can try to work on them and they will get better, but there’s always something Like some part of -- like they’re always gonna stick with you in some way. So I feel like that was like a big like experience with my body image, and it’s a lot better than it has been in the past. But I definitely don’t think I’d be half the person I was without that move.

33:12Maceo: No. Do you see like, aside from like the -- like when you look at the scale and like you’ve seen yourself gaining weight, do you see other like remnants of like those anxieties still?

33:23Alessia: I mean, I think this is something we all do, but comparisons. I mean, sometimes, like, if I’m just having a really bad day and I see some, like, a girl walk by and she looks great, I’ll be like, oh, I look like shit. And like, I’ll get in my head and I’ll start being like, well, I’m not them, I’m not this. But then I think I just step back and I’m like, no, you’re not them, you’re not this, you’re you. And that’s all you need to be. Like, you don’t need to be anybody else. Like, okay, you didn’t put makeup on this morning. That’s fine. You’re you. You don’t need to hate yourself because you didn’t put makeup on. Like, you woke up late. It’s okay. So kind of just like, I think I’ve learned more to like take a step back and be like, we’re all different and we’re all creative and we’re all beautiful in our own way. And we need to like spend time on finding ourselves instead of just pretending to be somebody else.

34:19Maceo: That makes a lot of sense. Do you feel like that’s something, I don’t know, you see a lot of people struggling with though in general? Like, how do you think about that, like, more largely?

34:30Alessia: I feel like, I feel like everybody in some way has some sort of body insecurity. I think everyone alive. I think if somebody told me they didn’t, I would think they were lying. I think it’s a very prevalent issue, especially in young girls. I would say like to everyone, but I do feel like it definitely -- there’s a very high demographic because of the type of things, the type of way they make women look in magazines. So I think that definitely does --

35:00Maceo: Yeah, movies, it’s not just magazines.

35:02Alessia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, magazines, TV, it’s everywhere. Social media too has also made it worse. So I feel like body image across all all adolescents regardless of gender is also making it worse. Um, so I think it’s more prevalent than ever because at like -- before social media, you couldn’t like -- you weren’t constantly reminded of this. And then kids get phones earlier now, so they’re gonna, what, have an Instagram at 10 and be scrolling through pictures of like, like, I don’t know, like Kylie Jenner and like all these people and be like, why don’t I look like them? Why am I not that skinny? I think it’s a very prevalent issue, and I think it’s something that we need to talk to, like, about more. We need to talk to these kids when they’re in, like, 9th, 10th, and, like, kind of help them build their self-esteem up. We need to offer them support. We need to offer them ways to make them feel good about themselves and let them know what you’re seeing isn’t healthy.

36:01Maceo: Yeah, I can only imagine it’s, like, further exacerbated Like with COVID and being indoors and really being on social media so much, like TikTok.

36:09Alessia: Yeah.

36:09Maceo: Like things that just kind of like pull us in entirely into the world of like how other people look.

36:13Alessia: Like I think it was always an issue, but I’m gonna say with like media, like social media is great in some ways, but it definitely does make a lot of things worse, such as like mental health has been worse and all this stuff, which is the same thing like with the body image. Like yeah, it’s really making people’s mental health go down. Um, and I feel like that’s a reason why, like, body dysmorphia is such a big thing now. I think it’s the media and all, like, the portrayal. Because, like, even as children, like, when I had those thoughts, like, as a kid, it was because I saw everybody around me and they were skinny. And then I saw people on TV and they were skinny. And I saw, like, everything else and it was skinny. So it’s like, is this normal? And I feel like when you’re a kid being exposed to that, you’re like, oh, this is normal. This is normal, but it shouldn’t be normal.

37:10Maceo: Yeah, no, it definitely shouldn’t. No. It’s an unhealthy standard.

37:15Alessia: Yeah.

37:17Maceo: It’s harmful.

37:18Alessia: It is. Because then you have these kids like who are like starving themselves and like I -- my sister had an eating disorder when she was fairly young. Like, she was around like 15. I’ve heard of kids who at like 12, like, it’s starting younger and younger, and it’s really terrifying. Like, mental illness is like a pandemic, and I feel like it’s terrifying.

37:39Maceo: Yeah, I agree. I think like mental illness and mental health are so scary. Like, just like the ambiguity around it, like, as much as we don’t understand it, like, I feel like it’s something that’s really hard to get a handle on because we don’t really have, like, people like, oh, we don’t have enough therapists, we don’t have enough this, but I feel like we don’t even have like enough of like an understanding.

38:01Alessia: No.

38:01Maceo: So like, even if we have like a million, like, plus, like, mental health, like, people there available to us to help us, that we’d necessarily still not just be trying to support each other through it rather than like getting a clear sense of like why our experiences are the way they are.

38:15Alessia: I think the very challenging thing with mental health is like, so when you talk like about like a medical illness, people present similar symptoms, even though they might be slightly different, it’s similar. But mental health, since you’re dealing with somebody’s emotions, it’s different for everybody. It comes out like depression can display like this, and somebody can display like this, and somebody -- so I think it’s since there’s not as much of like a standard, like it’s hard. And like also like The diet, like, even like curing depression, like, yes, I’ve been on meds, yes, I’ve went to therapy, but it’s still something I’m gonna have to deal with. And that’s like the hard thing. Like, so many people, like, depression is a constant struggle. Even if they get a little bit better, you know, it can come back. And I think that’s what’s truly terrifying.

39:09Maceo: I’m like still choking on sugar from these gummy bears.

39:19Alessia: Oh my God.

39:20Maceo: That I was like inhaling for the ASMR. Shout out to Juicy B.

39:26Julia: Josie B.

39:28Alessia: Josie B.

39:28Maceo: Josie B.

39:29Alessia: Juicy B.

39:30Maceo: Juicy J.

39:31Alessia: Juicy Couture.

39:32Julia: Juicy J. Um, for what you were just saying, Alessia, um, I think that psychiatrists and psychologists, while mental health is a field that is always developing and changing, and psychologists are changing their diagnostic workbook -- workbooks to -- Yeah. Have to envelop more of these symptoms they’re seeing, they do have like a baseline of people who will like fit into like a certain mental health disorder. that they like can diagnose, but like I definitely agree that it is different. People experience mental health differently. It differs for everybody. Absolutely, 100%. Um, I am really curious though about your high school administration, um, and I’m so concerned hearing all of these females suffering this and just the environment that they’re in, and I’m wondering like How were they able to study? Like, how were they able to get these grades in this good school if they couldn’t eat? And if they wouldn’t eat in the cafeteria and they would just -- I don’t know what the culture is around there, but did the administration not notice? And also -- That is a great question.

40:58Alessia: Yeah.

40:58Julia: For the guys, was this also like put on the guys like, oh, you need to be buff? Like, take steroids or whatever the flip side would be for them.

41:09Maceo: Yeah, where the guys fit into all of it.

41:11Julia: Yeah,

41:12Alessia: so I guess so the administration actually -- I will say something about New York because I’m gonna compare it to my school in Alabama because that was more alarming. But in New York, they realized that it was a mental illness, and New York was more of a place where -- this is when there was more of a stigma around mental illness. There obviously still is, but this was when I was in high school, so about like What, like 5, 6 years ago? I don’t know. This is like freshman year, so I don’t know, whenever. But, um --

41:40Maceo: Freshman year of high school?

41:41Alessia: Yeah, freshman year of high school.

41:43Maceo: Like 7 years ago.

41:43Alessia: Yeah, so there’s this huge stigma, but I feel like New York didn’t have as much of a stigma. So like, I think starting like in 6th grade, they bring in like suicide awareness speakers to talk to us. Like, here’s signs to look at, here’s like bullying PSAs, here’s all this. Like, they definitely tried to be like, look for these signs. So they did try to help in ways, but I think also like a lot of these kids, they weren’t going to the school, they were hiding. And like me as being a kid, it was like I knew it was wrong, so I’d tell my mom, but like I didn’t want to be the snitch going to the principal, as fucked up as that was.

42:18Julia: Mm-hmm.

42:19Alessia: Because nobody else did. So I was like, am I the only one who thinks this weird? Is there something wrong with me? Like, because nobody -- I was like, is this normal?

42:25Julia: Could they see like in the The grades though? Like, I’m just thinking, like, if you’re not getting the nutrition you need, there has to be some effect on the brain.

42:35Alessia: I don’t know, because I mean, I -- yeah,

42:40Julia: I don’t know how you would know, but I’m just like, yeah, no, that is interesting. How could they not notice?

42:45Alessia: No, that is interesting. Well, I did have a friend who -- sophomore, freshman year, she had to leave because her eating disorder got bad and her grades were bad, so she had to go to a hospital. And she was there for a while. But so there are those extreme cases. But like the first girl I told you about, she --

43:05Julia: The one throwing up?

43:06Alessia: Yeah, she didn’t get help. What happened was I talked to my mom about it, and she lived across the street. So I -- she was like saying like, oh, I need -- like, she’s like, oh, I’m not eating today. I’m just drinking water. And I was like, I want to say one -- oh, take her name out. I was like, I want to say one thing to you, like your face. I was like, you look like you’re about to pass out. And I was like, I was like, I can see your bones. And I was like, I love you and you’re beautiful, but, but I want you to be healthy. And like, and she -- and then she looked at me and she’s like, is it bad? And I was like, I would go to a doctor. And then she, she like told me she made an appointment. And her mom wasn’t very present in her life, so when she lived across the street, like my mom tried to tell talking to her mom about it. So she ended up getting better, but it was like I had to have that tough conversation because nobody else was willing to. Because she was just telling me like, oh, I’m not gonna eat today. I’m gonna go on just like a water diet for a week. And I was like, you really don’t need that. Like, you, you need to eat.

44:06Maceo: How old were you?

44:07Alessia: 9th grade. So what are you, like 14?

44:11Maceo: That’s crazy.

44:12Julia: Yeah, that must have been --

44:13Alessia: yeah, but then, so they tried the most, but But, oh, for the guys, I don’t really think there really was that much of an emphasis on the guys. Yeah, because we weren’t like a huge sports school. I mean, like, a lot of guys did work out, but I feel like the ones who didn’t, like, I didn’t see them being ridiculed. But also, like, I wasn’t really close with that many guys, so maybe I just wasn’t feeling it because I wasn’t in that environment. So as far as the guys, I don’t know. But one thing I will say is my school in New York did handle it better than Alabama. In Alabama, they stigmatize mental health and the services there are not great.

44:53Julia: Wow.

44:55Alessia: And it was very bad because, um, the year before I went to my school in Alabama, I found this out, my -- not a lot, like right before I graduated, and this happened like When I was in 9th grade, somebody at the school killed themselves. They never had an assembly about it, never talked about it.

45:14Julia: And Alabama?

45:16Alessia: Yeah, they just sweeped it under the rug, never brought it up.

45:18Julia: Wow.

45:19Alessia: And I remember like when I was there, I once had a therapy appointment, so I came into school with the note, and the lady at the front desk, she laughed and she goes, I’m surprised you didn’t rip off the top. I was like, what do you mean? She’s like, oh, everybody here, when they give me notes from therapy, they rip off the office. we don’t know that their kids go. And this was to just like the secretary at school. And she was like, yeah, like these parents don’t want their kids to know that -- like don’t even want administration to know their kids are going to therapy. And like -- That’s so sad. When I was just dealing with stuff like emotionally, like the school just didn’t handle it well and it made it worse. Like one of my friends was in a really bad place, like had to be hospitalized many times, and like The therapist told her like, oh, I can’t help you. Like, at the school, she’s like, you’re a lost cause. Like, and they weren’t very helpful. And I know, like, because she told her, she’s like, you’re too much for me to handle. Like, I didn’t sign up for this.

46:14Julia: My God.

46:15Alessia: Because my friend was bipolar, and she’s like, I can’t, can’t handle you. Um, but I think I wrote my fresh -- my junior year, I was like, got very passionate about like speaking up with mental illness since it’s been in my family for a while. I have experience with my sister and some stuff, and I wrote my research paper about families and how families deal with mental illness and how mental illness affects the family members emotionally, but also genetic-wise, what it can do for a family, how a lot of families end up in divorce. And I had a speaker It was my mom’s friend who had a child with bipolar, and she’s been to schools all around like talking about it. She made an independent film about it.

47:05Maceo: Oh yeah? Do you know what it’s called?

47:06Alessia: Yeah, it’s called No Letting Go. I don’t know where to find it. I know we do have a copy at home. It’s very hard to watch, but it’s this beautiful movie. So I talked to my English teacher about like, can we bring her in? Because she offered to come to my school, and she’s like, yeah, like I’ll be the staff to support you. And we went to talk to administration and they’re like, we’re not ready for this conversation. Mhm. Like, we can’t address mental illness when, like, I knew multiple people in that school who were hurting themselves or had tried to kill themselves or were going through a lot, and they just wouldn’t address it. They swept it under the rug. Like, my friend was out for, like, 2 weeks at a mental hospital, and, like, they just, like, didn’t even -- like, when she came back, they didn’t even check in on her, and they were just like, oh, you have to get all this work done, like no regard for her health or her mental illness.

47:57Maceo: Yeah.

47:59Alessia: So even though like there was a lot of prevalent issues, I feel like they definitely did handle it better. But I feel like especially since like we were a private school and we had a good reputation, they swept things under the rug because they -- because if other parents knew that we were all struggling mentally they wouldn’t want to send their kids there. So I think it was also the school suppressing it, like, no, we don’t want to address this.

48:25Maceo: They didn’t want the reputation.

48:25Alessia: Like, yeah, like, we don’t want to be the school known as having all these mental health problems.

48:30Maceo: That makes sense. That’s a shame.

48:32Alessia: Yeah.

48:33Maceo: That kind of becomes like the, the concern taking priority over like the actual well-being of the kids coming here to be educated. Because it kind of just like, if you’re not prioritizing them, like, what’s really the worst look?

48:44Alessia: Yeah, like the school is supposed to take care of the kids, not essentially -- you should care about them. You shouldn’t be making them worse.

48:51Maceo: I feel like the parents that really do care about their kids are gonna be more inclined to send their kids there with that reassurance that you’re actually like taking a proactive stance towards it.

48:57Alessia: Because yeah, because it’s like a private school, and the funny thing is they like focus on like in their mission statement, like, we cater to each child’s needs. You mean academic needs. You don’t mean Their well-being. You should want these kids to be okay. You should be promoting a safe and healthy learning environment, not the opposite.

49:17Maceo: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I want people to feel comfortable, I want people to feel at home.

49:28Alessia: Yeah, no, and it was just like a cycle, like it’d been going on for years and just like Like, people in the public schools, like, I knew some of them and they were just in so much better place. Like, everyone in my private school was just like spiraling out for some reason. And I think it was also like just the environment of the school.

49:47Maceo: You think it was like an academic environment?

49:49Alessia: The academic environment, but also just like the kids in the environment. Like, they were definitely very wealthy kids. And my mom sent me there because I was coming from -- I went to public school in New York, so it was also that transition. And it was because like New York does have better schools than Alabama. So that’s why I went to a private school. But

50:10Maceo: like the public school teacher or something like --

50:12Alessia: Yeah, I went to -- so we met with the principal of the public school because my mom just wanted to like get an idea like what are our options. And she -- because my mom’s like, if we don’t have to pay $20K a year for public -- for private school, that would be great. Like you went to public school. And also this goes into the entire thing you were talking about with racism, because we were like hearing these things when I moved in, like, oh yeah, um, to Huntsville High, they are busing in some black kids to the schools. It’s like, like the, like, like integration, like they’re almost like into, like they’re just integrating the school now.

50:50Maceo: Mm-hmm.

50:51Alessia: Which we were like, are they really like this behind that? It was like 2015 and you’re integrating a school now? So like, that was a big, like, recent thing. My mom was like, this is weird. Like, are they like -- like, what are their views, this school? Like, what’s going on? Um, but they also -- the woman also told us like, you have a New York education, like, it’s way better than anything here. Like, you’re gonna take honors classes and you’re gonna learn nothing. So she kind of was like, don’t come here. Um, so that was part of it too. But yeah, I don’t know. I feel like my high school was definitely a very toxic -- like, both high schools I went to was definitely very toxic, and I’m definitely glad I’m out of that environment because they were toxic in their different ways.

51:40Maceo: Yeah, I hear that. I think that even, like, I don’t know exactly what you had to say before, Julia, about, like, education, but I feel like That’s relevant to what we’re talking about now. Do you have something you want to chime in? Um, even just thoughts?

51:57Julia: Well, I kind of wanted to have a conversation with like you, Mia, and me, because I think we all went to -- we all had like -- could weigh in on on boarding school or public school, boarding school, whatever, and like the differences.

52:24Maceo: We went to a Catholic high school, I think.

52:25Julia: Yeah, so I thought that would have been interesting. But my --

52:30Maceo: I mean, you could just talk about like mental health even, and like you went to George School, mental health at the George School.

52:36Julia: Sure. Um, so There also was mental health prevalence at George School. It’s a school, Quaker school, in Newtown, Pennsylvania. I would say not to the extent that Alessi was talking about in New York or Alabama, and it was, from what I could see, Diversity, like there were individuals from like their own backgrounds, um, who would come to the school from all over the world and they would have their own experiences that they would carry on and share with their friends at the school. Um, one, and I think it was mainly with the females, if we’re talking about not mental health In particular, but just eating. Body image? Just, yeah, body image, eating disorders. Um, an example of this is I had a really good roommate from China.

53:50Maceo: Sorry, wait, I’m gonna pause it and like rewind it on new tracks. I know it’s gonna end.

53:55Julia: Oh, it’s so creaky.

53:57Maceo: Yeah, it is quite creaky. Okay,

54:00Drew: did you just start?

54:03Maceo: Yeah, it did, but it’s alright.

54:05Julia: How long was the last one?

54:07Maceo: It was like 60 minutes.

54:09Julia: Hmm, didn’t feel like 60 minutes.

54:13Alessia: Oh wow.

54:13Maceo: It was like intermittent. Like the first 20 minutes, like, was like us discussing how we’re gonna start it and like why the N-word, and then, oh, there’s not even audio.

54:24Julia: Do you wanna pull us back in then?

54:26Maceo: Like into the conversation? Yeah, I mean, you were just talking about being at the George School and body image, like what it looks like there. Is that what you mean?

54:37Julia: Yeah, I thought you’re gonna like introduce the whole podcast again.

54:41Maceo: Oh, you want me to? I can.

54:43Julia: No, I don’t know.

54:44Maceo: Hey everybody, welcome to the We Them Niggas podcast. This is, uh, I guess I probably just won’t say whatever, what episode it is because I don’t know when I’m gonna release it. But this is my 3rd recorded podcast episode. I interviewed Isaac, my other room -- one of my roommates, Isaac Kelly. And then I interviewed -- did a crossover episode with Thomas Downs last week. Wow. And then we have this impromptu 407 podcast episode where I get the privilege of talking to Alessia about her life and her move from New York to Huntsville, Alabama. And Julia Smith about life alongside us.

55:26Julia: Yep.

55:27Maceo: And mental health and everything else we’re talking about. Racism, the N-word, the word nigga, and whatever else there is to talk about. And you know how we got to be where we are now. And they’re probably gonna edit or maybe just not say all these things. I managed to record the intro, but

55:44Julia: that’s the

55:45Maceo: gist of it. Just -- and now I’m pulling us back in to Julia giving us the scoop.

55:49Alessia: Yes,

55:52Julia: thank you for that tie-in, Maseo. Um,

55:57Maceo: my pleasure. You know, I pride myself on my ability to tie us things back together, you

56:03Julia: know? Yeah, it’s a talent.

56:04Maceo: The turtles are, are fully being used to power Japan.

56:07Alessia: Absolutely. Those turtles are crazy.

56:09Maceo: $10,000 everyone. $10,000 for a box turtle.

56:12Julia: $10K?

56:14Maceo: $10K. But yeah, you can continue it.

56:17Alessia: So -- that’s such a --

56:21Maceo: sorry. You’re fine.

56:22Alessia: No, the Wordle was weird, so --

56:24Julia: Wordle of the day, if you haven’t done it, Tuesday, April 19th, um, go do it before you listen to me spoil it. It is foyer.

56:36Alessia: It’s very dumb.

56:37Maceo: So explain to me how Wordle works. I actually, I haven’t done it because it kind of confused me the first time I did it.

56:44Alessia: So you do a 5-letter word, anything you want, and if it turns green, then you put the letter in the right place. If it turns yellow, you have the correct letter but it’s in the wrong place. And if it’s gray, it’s not in the word, and you just have to like move around and start again.

57:02Maceo: Only 6? Yeah. Isn’t that so few?

57:06Julia: But it’s 5 letters.

57:08Alessia: It’s 5 letters, and then like it’ll like let you know like if you have correct letters as you’re going.

57:13Maceo: I guess. I don’t know. It sounds stressful to me.

57:16Alessia: I got it on the last one. Foyer was a weird one.

57:19Julia: It is foyer. I realized that we’re not live, so there’s no point in me saying go do the Wordle.

57:25Maceo: I mean, we’re recording.

57:26Alessia: But people aren’t listening. Yeah, but it’s

57:28Julia: not like we’re gonna post it within the next

57:30Maceo: Oh yeah, but I like, I like the date thing, like saying this is when it was recorded. I kind of feel like that.

57:34Alessia: Yeah, we should do that.

57:35Julia: 11:30, April 19th.

57:39Alessia: 4:20 and 29 minutes.

57:41Maceo: Yeah.

57:42Alessia: Yeah. Let’s celebrate everyone.

57:45Maceo: Cheers. Cheers is all we have to say.

57:48Alessia: Clink, clink.

57:48Maceo: Clink, clink. ASMR. That’s our studio audience, in case you didn’t know. We are production value here on the We Them Niggas podcast.

58:01Alessia: Wait, well, you, you need to get the laugh tracks.

58:03Maceo: Maybe I’ll have to add that.

58:06Alessia: Like, we need to add -- like, you said laugh tracks.

58:08Julia: It’s so annoying.

58:09Maceo: What do you mean? It could be like iCarly. It could be like iCarly

58:13Alessia: or

58:14Maceo: like Hannah Montana where they have like the live, the live crowd, like just sound effects thrown in there.

58:18Alessia: Imagine if Drew woke you up in the morning with laugh tracks. That would be terrifying.

58:24Julia: That would be horrifying.

58:26Alessia: I’m gonna tell Drew to do it.

58:27Julia: That’d be a good April Fool’s joke, I think. It’d also be like very confusing as well.

58:33Alessia: Oh no, I think

58:39Maceo: it would be like amusing. Like, you go, you go --

58:42Alessia: Clearly we had a sleepover. I should have woke her up to the laughter.

58:45Julia: You’re so annoying.

58:46Alessia: And the sleepover would have been like when you had to work that one day. 9 AM.

58:50Maceo: Julia, I feel like we digressed so far.

58:58Julia: What?

59:00Maceo: I thought we digressed so far.

59:01Julia: Yeah, but I just -- I wanted to give it to you so you could put it next to the --

59:05Maceo: Oh, that’s true. That’s good. No, I had them all actually. You’re right. Thank you. I didn’t realize you were trying to add them to my catalog of sounds.

59:12Alessia: You need other sounds.

59:15Julia: Get ready, be quiet everyone.

59:16Maceo: Whoa. There you go.

59:16Alessia: Okay, I have another one. I have one if people don’t, um -- oh, this is booing noises if anything bad happens on here.

59:34E: When allergies tickle

59:37Alessia: your sore nose. That’s not the song. Give me a second, this isn’t the moving track. This is an hour moving track if you need it. It’s fine.

1:00:06Maceo: It’s fine. I know I made a face, but it’s just like loud in my ears. That’s because I have the headphones on. Like, it doesn’t matter, but it was quite alarming.

1:00:15Alessia: I’m sorry.

1:00:16Maceo: You’re fine.

1:00:17Julia: Anyway, to answer your question about George School mental health, I think there, there was a prevalence of mental health --

1:00:28Maceo: I don’t mean to stop you now, but we’re gonna have to re-enter this conversation. We were putting on YouTube sound. I was gonna put on a beat to freestyle to.

1:00:35Julia: Oh, oh, okay.

1:00:36Alessia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we, are we freestyling now? Switch up.

1:00:39Maceo: I feel like why not, you know?

1:00:40Alessia: Okay.

1:00:41Maceo: You know,

1:00:42Alessia: like, I’m down. Freestyle about George School on the 12th.

1:00:48Maceo: You could, but do you like this beat?

1:00:53Alessia: I like the beat.

1:00:55Julia: Yeah, I like the lyrics as well.

1:00:57Maceo: Oh yeah? Are you guys gonna freestyle? Freestyle with me?

1:00:58Alessia: Maybe.

1:01:00Maceo: Potentially you’ll freestyle with me. I like the sound of that indeed. Yeah, we’re talking about the health, it’s mental. I need a dentist, come check out my dental. Um, yeah, we made stir-fry for dinner. It was pretty good. The rice was kind of undercooked, I won’t lie. Should have put more water in the pot. Intimidated, like it or not. I’m trying to cook more. I’m trying to expand my palate.

1:01:27Julia: Mmm.

1:01:28Maceo: Yeah, I’m freestyling here with Julia and Wesia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, on the We Them Niggas podcast. Yeah, what will they say? Yeah, yeah, talking about this and that, talking about that anus. Freestyling these words. Yeah, these words. Yeah, yeah, they miss. I’m trying to sing right now. Singing sometimes need a crown. I poop, I’m the man in town. Like, who’s gonna wipe my ass right now? It’s me. I’m responsible for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wipe my ass indeed. I do it all for me. Can’t have a stinky ass, you don’t want that. Don’t wanna walk around smelling like some shit. Yeah. That’d be some shit. Like it or not, you can’t have that shit in your pants. Gotta wipe that shit clean. Gotta do what you got to be clean. Gotta keep up that -- what? That hygiene. Uh, yeah. We need to add laughter. For the puberty, I wasn’t sweating so much. After puberty, I was sweating a bunch and I smelled like some shit sometimes. Can’t lie. Now I shower a little bit more frequently. I try not to smell like shit. I brush my teeth occasionally. I do it -- just kidding, it’s more frequent. My teeth smelled bad at one point too, and cavities hurt. Now I’m more responsible in the dirt. I come back, I take a shower, get clean. I have to go to camp and have a good good time. Yeah, it’s all right to get dirty. Yeah, you gotta get clean. You gotta get clean. Because you know what that means. You know, singing about things. So we were just gonna continue talking about mental health at the sports tour, but we had a freestyle interlude, or Mercedes freestyle, and they said they might jump in too. I’m not sure, but I’m gonna throw it up in the air, see what happens when we go from here. You guys are freestyling it all.

1:03:36Alessia: Are you gonna freestyle this?

1:03:38Maceo: I’m not a producer.

1:03:41Alessia: Okay, I have another one. If people don’t, um -- Yeah,

1:03:51Julia: let’s just have a conversation. Okay, about our occupations.

1:03:57F: Tell me right now.

1:03:59Julia: No, our future jobs. What are we gonna do after college? I really don’t know, but I wanna see where this can go.

1:04:06Alessia: Give me a second to think of a balloon trap.

1:04:09Julia: You know?

1:04:09Alessia: This isn’t our balloon trap.

1:04:11F: If you were to do something, what would it be?

1:04:13Julia: I think a teacher might be cool. We’ll see. How about you? I heard you want to be an actuary. That’s pretty cool.

1:04:26Maceo: Actually, facts.

1:04:27Alessia: I, I feel like I could definitely explore the actuarial path

1:04:33Julia: for sure,

1:04:35Alessia: but I also like the stats.

1:04:39Julia: Stats is pretty

1:04:41Alessia: cool, but I also want to find myself, and I really want to travel.

1:04:46Julia: Where’d you travel

1:04:49Alessia: to? I want to go everywhere. I want to Experience. I want to experience, I want to explore,

1:04:57Julia: I want to -- Australia! Australia!

1:04:59Maceo: Why not?

1:05:01Alessia: I would love to go to Australia. I would, I would love to go to -- I’m just talking though. We’re trying, we’re trying.

1:05:09Maceo: Yeah, I appreciate it. There’s no critics here.

1:05:12Alessia: I would really love to go to Australia, but there are some really big fucking bugs. True. But

1:05:24Maceo: Australia --

1:05:25Alessia: Don’t you want to give those bugs some hugs? I would love to give bugs hugs and see some kangaroos.

1:05:38Julia: What sound does a kangaroo make?

1:05:45Maceo: Maybe jump him?

1:05:46Julia: Stop. Not a -- definitely not a sound like a snake.

1:05:50Alessia: What does the kangaroo say?

1:05:54Maceo: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh.

1:05:57Alessia: Ha ha ha ha ha ha. What? Yeah, does the kangaroo -- that’s the thing I don’t get. There’s so many animals that we don’t know what their noise is, but they were focusing on the fox.

1:06:06Julia: Hati hati hati.

1:06:07Alessia: What sound does kangaroo make? Just to go, roooooo!

1:06:11Julia: Alpacas sound like -- Oh, sounds!

1:06:14Alessia: Wait, here’s a video. I’m just curious.

1:06:17Maceo: No, it’s fine.

1:06:18Julia: Okay. He’s like heavy breathing. That’s actually horrifying.

1:06:30Alessia: Oh my god! The comments say, sounds like me getting up from bed. It sounds like an old man mixed with an underdeveloped dinosaur. are having a hard time picking up the groceries dropped on the floor. That really does sound like that. That is exactly what it sounds like though.

1:06:48Julia: Let me, let me show you this animal sound.

1:06:50Alessia: We really digress.

1:06:54Julia: It’s alright. And you’re gonna tell me what animal this is.

1:06:58Alessia: Okay. Guess the animal.

1:07:02Maceo: So when I look it up next time, I know the, the beat that I played was this Sleepy Hollow, poetry type beat, I Hate Love by Sho Beats and Produce Montclair. Love that. And now for

1:07:15Julia: our next game. You ready?

1:07:19F: Koala. Fireflies.

1:07:25Julia: I thought it would be like --

1:07:27Maceo: Is this not a video game? Sorry. Is it like a, a hamster?

1:07:35Julia: No, here, let me see. Sounded like a bug, like buzzing or something. So I was gonna -- it’s more spread out. I’m gonna find a clip where it’s like -- Ew,

1:07:46Maceo: literally. Put it on the front side of the building.

1:07:50Alessia: It literally sounds like a shooting game.

1:07:52Maceo: That’s what I thought. I thought it was like Battlestar Galactica. Not Battlestar Galactica, whatever that game is Galactico? I

1:07:59Julia: don’t know.

1:08:00Maceo: That’s where Galactico is, like, I feel like a show.

1:08:02Julia: Literally, I’m --

1:08:13Maceo: I thought you were about to do like, like a momentary karaoke. I was like, okay.

1:08:16F: I was like, okay,

1:08:17Julia: I’m done. Sorry, y’all, I’m burping now.

1:08:24Maceo: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

1:08:26Julia: All right, you guys talk about something else while I find this.

1:08:33Maceo: All right. Oh, I see, you just want to talk about religion as well.

1:08:38Alessia: Yeah, getting kind of tired, but yeah. Um, oh, uh, so I’m

1:08:49Julia: going.

1:08:50Alessia: I was -- okay, you got it?

1:08:51Julia: No.

1:08:52Alessia: Okay, so I was raised Roman Catholic.

1:08:55Maceo: Well, I guess I feel like we should kind of tie this in. So on Sunday night we had dinner.

1:08:59Alessia: Yes.

1:09:00Maceo: To celebrate Easter and Passover as an apartment. Uh, Alessia and Giulia made dinner for us and we had like a phenomenal meal. Alessia made some fried chicken cutlets. Giulia had some pasta salad, some pie as well, and then there was also fish in the oven that she made. It was a spectacular meal, so thank you guys again for that. But then we also had a fantastic conversation because of that. We were just talking about our relationships to God and to Jesus and religion.

1:09:28Alessia: So how we got -- as we were talking about Easter and Passover and essentially like getting to learn like each other’s experience like with this holiday, whichever one we celebrate during this time, and Isaac asked us what our relationship to Jesus is, and it struck up like a really interesting conversation, and it just made me realize like I had been raised Roman Catholic for a really long time, but I’ve never been the super religious type. And I am a math major. I am very like wired like very logically. So I feel like for me, a very hard part about religion is trying to believe in something I can’t physically see. Um, so that’s where it gets super hard for me. And I feel like lately, like, I have more of an idea where it’s like I do believe that there is definitely a greater power out there. I do believe that you know, that there is fate. I do definitely believe that things happen for a reason, but like, that necessarily -- like, maybe the thing that’s pushed me away from religion was more of like the Catholic Church. And like, my grandmother was essentially in an arranged marriage, and she got divorced at a young age because she was married and had kids with someone who she didn’t love. And who According to the Catholic Church, she shouldn’t be allowed to go to Mass. Um, and like, it just doesn’t make sense because if you read these Bible readings, like, Jesus accepted prostitutes, he forgave murderers, but yet these people who are gay or these people who are divorced aren’t being allowed in the church, which I think is super messed up because if Jesus is all-forgiving and he accepts everyone, why are we blocking them out? And I do think that, like, we were talking about the new Pope too, and I feel like he’s definitely like making a change. But I feel like for me, maybe I don’t identify as a Catholic just because of some of the other rules. But what like my mom tries to tell me is to like separate the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church isn’t the religion. It’s what you believe in. It’s this greater power. It’s not what other people are saying. Just listen to the word of God because a lot of people are saying their own word, not word of God. They’re going against. It says in the Bible that Jesus will love you and forgive you and accept you for everything. But the Catholic Church is doing the complete opposite. And I was telling them that like. I went to church with my mom when I was back home, and the priest was like, thank you for all showing up. You know, because this was during COVID and he was like, COVID can’t get to us because we have God. Like, Fauci doesn’t know what he’s saying. Like, none of us are gonna get sick. You are protected here. And then a bunch of people got COVID. Like, I get like believing in God And like being like, oh, I’ll be okay if he’s there. But I think sometimes people are irrational when it comes to that, like going to a church without a mask when there’s a pandemic and there’s over 100 people there. Like, if you’re doing that, there’s no way that God’s gonna make sure that you don’t get COVID.

1:13:20Maceo: Yeah.

1:13:20Alessia: There’s no way he’s gonna like come and like intersect the germs. Like, so I feel like sometimes like I get having Jesus and having something to pray to to give you comfort, but I feel like a lot of the times people just sit around and expect a miracle to happen, and it’s not. Like, if you don’t put yourself out there then it’s not gonna happen. God could give you the strength and the courage that you need to put yourself out there, but it -- like, if I’m like, oh, if I pray to God and I’m like, oh, I want a job, I want a job, but I don’t apply for any, it’s not gonna like appear in front of me. Like, someone’s not gonna come up to me and be like, oh, you’re hired. So I feel like that’s a big thing too. And I mean --

1:14:06Maceo: No applications or anything?

1:14:08Alessia: Yeah, like, I wish I could just pray and then like someone just come to me and be like, yeah, like here, you didn’t apply.

1:14:15Maceo: Facts.

1:14:16Alessia: But like realistically, that’s not how the world works. And like I get putting your faith and trust into God, but I feel like you also need to put it in yourself. I mean, you have to realize that God’s gonna help you, but there’s only so much he can do. He can’t move your body and make you get out of bed and place a job application. That’s you. Um,

1:14:39Maceo: yeah.

1:14:40Alessia: So I think it’s just me like kind of like now like figuring out, because I used to not really associate myself with religion and be like religion doesn’t matter, but I feel like I’m coming more to terms with what I do like about the Catholic religion and what I don’t like about the Catholic religion and how it may not be the right religion for me and how I definitely do believe in something, but as far as religion, like I know there’s something out there, but I’m not into entirely sure where I fully stand on it. And I definitely, like, lately do feel more spiritual and feel like kind of like everything’s connected. So I guess it’s just like me trying to figure myself out, but just like how being like raised Roman Catholic like had affected me. And like I was hearing all these terrible things about the Catholic Church, and at one point it made me like almost despise the relation -- the religion that I grew up in. And like I’m better now and I understand like people are gonna be people, and you have to believe in God, and he’s a greater power. Like, what these people are saying shouldn’t get in how you think about him. Like, he’s this great power, and like, Jesus wasn’t judgmental of all these prostitutes and these murderers. Like, that’s not who Jesus is. Jesus isn’t the image that the Catholic Church is portraying with the way they’re acting.

1:16:00Maceo: Yeah, and it’s not necessarily like reasonable to like essentialize one as the other.

1:16:12Alessia: Yeah.

1:16:12Maceo: That makes sense. I never really like -- we used to go to like a Roman Catholic church in Philly, um, we’d go like my grandparents, but I really like stopped going there as soon as I possibly could. Like since my grandparents stopped going, I was like, yeah, we’re not gonna No,

1:16:28Alessia: that’s the thing, and it’s just like, since I’m over 18, I’m 22 now, like my mom only asked that I go to church on holidays, which I respect. She’s like, you’re 18, but it would make me happy if you were there to support. So I do it, I don’t mind. But it’s just like, so the Catholic priests, they give homilies, I’m pretty sure. It’s when they talk, they kind of like have a lesson that they talk about once a week.

1:16:52Maceo: Mhm.

1:16:53Alessia: And the priest was so unwelcoming. And me and my sister were there with my mom, and just how terrible we felt after this homily, essentially calling everybody out, saying, if you don’t come to church every week, like, you don’t deserve to be here. God needs more from you. And like, you shouldn’t come up here and do communion if you don’t come to church. Like, you’re a fake Catholic. And like -- It was just like this terrible talk, and I was like, I feel terrible when I go to that church. And that’s when I realized, I was like, church is supposed to be welcoming. You’re supposed to tell people like, hey, it’s okay if you don’t make it to church every week. You have a busy week, but you’re here now. And it should be like, yes, going to church every Sunday, I know like that’s something that very devout Catholics do, but if you don’t have time for that and you’re busy, And you go when you want, like, God should understand. He’s all-forgiving. And this priest was like, oh, you -- like, basically telling me and my sister, like, you shouldn’t be here. You’re not real Catholics. And like, me and my sister, we didn’t get up and do communion. Like, we both had our First Communion. We could have, but we were just like, we feel uncomfortable now.

1:18:02Maceo: Mm-hmm.

1:18:02Alessia: And it was just like a very toxic environment. And I think that’s when I started to realize my problem isn’t with the religion. it’s with the Catholic Church because the priest that we have is very old and very like old-fashioned, so he says stuff like that. Um, and the same thing with like the entire COVID comment. So I think I kind of realized like that the priest isn’t necessarily a depiction of God, and I used to think it was as a kid.

1:18:32Maceo: Mhm.

1:18:32Alessia: It’s these priests Like, I don’t know, this is gonna be like very controversial, but almost like these priests are interpreting God’s word in a completely different way and teaching us like what they think about it. Like, it’s almost like biased, you know?

1:18:49Maceo: Yeah.

1:18:49Alessia: And how it’s not truly God’s word. It has a bias in it. It’s like when you listen to the news, most of the time there’s a bias. You’re not getting the full story. And I feel like sometimes the priests, like, there are biases. And I like -- that’s why I feel like for me and my religion, like, I haven’t fully read the Bible, but I think that if I were to explore, I wouldn’t go to church and I would just read myself and explore myself because I feel like you can connect with God just one-on-one. And maybe I will find a church I like, but I at least know like the experiences that I’ve had with the Catholic Church, just it’s not welcoming. It’s not what I feel like religion should be.

1:19:30Maceo: That makes sense.

1:19:31Alessia: Yeah.

1:19:31Maceo: And you were talking about like your grandmother as well before, no?

1:19:35Alessia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she’s technically like not allowed to do communion in a church because she got divorced. And I mean, she got married at 16, and it was like her being forced to come to the US because she was from Italy. So it was like she didn’t really have much say when she was put in this marriage, and she just met this guy and married him right on the spot. Like, I mean, it wasn’t definitely -- it definitely was doomed to begin with.

1:20:04Maceo: Yeah, for

1:20:04Alessia: the most part. Like, it was very not likely it would last.

1:20:07Maceo: Yeah.

1:20:08Alessia: And the fact that a decision that she was forced to make as a teenager, now she can’t do communion at a church.

1:20:16Maceo: Yeah, choice she made under duress. Under duress is kind of like --

1:20:20Alessia: yeah,

1:20:20Maceo: at least for being penalized. I feel like,

1:20:22Alessia: yeah, and like also it’s the thing too about the Catholic Church that this is also controversial, but that they’re not lenient. Like, I get that the Catholic Church is pro-life and I may have different views, but the one thing about the pro-life argument that I don’t understand is that they still don’t think abortion is right for rape victims. or right for incest, which I feel like -- I don’t know, I just feel like if they want to be supportive and they want to be this, like, they should want to be helping these victims. Like, I get it, I totally get this pro -- I get the pro-life argument, even though I can see both sides. But I do get the pro-life argument, but just the fact that, like, they’re not very open to this stuff. Or, like, even, like, if you get divorced because you’re getting abused. Like, you’re still not allowed in the Catholic Church, and I feel like they need to open up more of their guidelines. Like, you’re basically shutting these victims out when it shouldn’t be that way. Like, you’re pushing these victims farther and farther away when these victims, they need religion, they need something to have faith in to heal.

1:21:34Maceo: Yeah, they need community.

1:21:35Alessia: Yeah, like, they should be welcoming these victims instead of pushing them aside. And I feel like that’s something I don’t like about the Catholic Church, how it isolates a lot of people. And a lot of people are leaving Catholicism because I think they’re realizing, like, it’s just very stringent.

1:21:50Maceo: Yeah.

1:21:50Alessia: Do you have anything you would like to talk about, Julia? I know you were raised Catholic.

1:22:06Julia: I was also raised Roman Catholic. Um, first of all, hearing that about your grandmother, that’s horrible. That never should have happened. Um, do you mind me asking, like, where’s your grandfather?

1:22:23Alessia: So I’m not gonna get like super personal because it is a podcast, but I’ll tell you about later. But essentially, like, things didn’t work out well, and he ended up leaving, and he moved to Connecticut, and he remarried.

1:22:39Julia: Okay.

1:22:40Alessia: Um, but the woman that he found is a great fit for her -- for him. Like, I love her. She’s an amazing woman, and she has helped him grow so much. She -- my mom, when they got divorced, my mom didn’t talk to my dad for over 20 My mom didn’t talk to my grandfather for over 20 years. Mm-hmm. And it was hard, but when my sister was born, my mom wanted our grandparents to be in our life. And Maria, which is the new woman that he found, who’s absolutely amazing, encouraged him to reach out and was like, I know things happened between you, but you should be part of your grandchild’s life. So he would come over when we were younger and him and my mom would talk and they would always bring us like these like coloring books and cannolis and like kind of really try to make it up for us. And he’s never missed any one of my birthdays. Like, he’s made it up because I think he realizes like we deserve a grandfather and also trying to make it up to my mom. So I think he’s definitely matured. But like my grandma -- like my sister’s wedding’s coming up. coming up, and my sister wants my grandfather there because she’s like, you know, like, he actually did show up for me and he was part of my life. And my mom’s like, yeah, it’s your grandfather, of course you can.

1:23:59Julia: Yeah.

1:23:59Alessia: And my grandmother wasn’t too happy because she hasn’t seen him in like 50 years, and she was like, how could you? So it like started this tiff. So it’s like mostly between them, but I feel like my mom still says that she has some sort of resentment for the way that he acted when she was a child. But he -- she really -- my mom realized like how young, because like he was 18 and she was 16 when they had my mom. My mom also realizes like how young he was and how he has matured and how he truly is sorry.

1:24:31Julia: Yeah.

1:24:32Alessia: So not necessarily ready to let it go, but to give him the forgiveness.

1:24:35Julia: Yeah.

1:24:38Alessia: So I guess just that.

1:24:39Julia: Wow, what an experience.

1:24:42Alessia: Yeah.

1:24:44Maceo: Agreed. Thank you for asking that, Julia.

1:24:46Alessia: Yeah, no,

1:24:47Julia: um, yeah, but anyway, so my relationship with -- it’s -- so I was raised Roman Catholic, and I wouldn’t say I have much of a relationship with the faith that I was raised in or the Roman Catholic Church. I stay up to date with, um, the news and the current Pope and, and everything that’s going on

1:25:17Maceo: right now. You do?

1:25:17Alessia: Hmm,

1:25:19Julia: yeah.

1:25:19Alessia: What’s currently going on?

1:25:20Julia: Like with, with Pope Francis and the whole COVID thing and him saying like, oh, protect yourself against COVID. Yeah, people saying like, oh, this Pope is horrible. Like, how could he say that? How could he put that out or insinuate that to all of these fathers? Followers who, um, believe in God and believe in Jesus and believe that if they pray that they don’t have to use preventative measures, or, um, they --

1:25:50Maceo: Hello? Please be safe. No, someone knocked. Is the door locked?

1:25:58Julia: Why is that your immediate -- hello?

1:26:00Maceo: It’s unlocked, right? What are you calling me for?

1:26:04Alessia: Is that Drew?

1:26:06Maceo: Open the door.

1:26:08Julia: Come in. Should I just open it?

1:26:13Maceo: Yeah, you can just open it.

1:26:14Alessia: Why? I’m so confused.

1:26:16Maceo: She’s being strange.

1:26:18E: What are you doing? Do you not hear us? No,

1:26:30Maceo: sorry.

1:26:30Alessia: How is Chad?

1:26:32Julia: You’re hilarious, Isaac.

1:26:33E: Good.

1:26:34Julia: Calling to say what? Like, we were like, what?

1:26:39E: I’m sorry.

1:26:44Maceo: You need to apologize.

1:26:45Alessia: You can join the podcast.

1:26:51Julia: Anyway, so yeah, there was the whole I just keep up to date with everything, but me in particular, um, I think that I have a very unique and complicated relationship with God, I would say, and Jesus, just because there are things in the Catholic faith where it’s very Conditional. Yeah. Where, um, there’s so much guilt and shame if like you express yourself, um, sexually, or if you express yourself that isn’t within the majority of views. Um, if you believe in God and Jesus butch, but you’re a homosexual. Yeah. Um, and I think growing up and just hearing all of this stuff from my mom and my church, and I would attend nightly classes to get communion and then confirmation. You have to take these classes to like learn about your faith and what you’re supposed to do, to educate you when you walk down and you receive your communion and you choose that name for yourself. Mm-hmm. And the symbolism behind it, it’s -- I think it’s very harmful just because if you do something wrong, you’re like, I’m such a horrible person. Like, what -- like, how, how can I, like, make it up to this thing that is all-powerful? Um, it’s just a lot to deal with as a kid, I think. Um, and hearing this from other people and other faiths, it’s kind of this all throughout link that I’m kind of observing. Not through -- I think there are some faiths that are different than others, but I think definitely in Catholicism, Christianity, and Judaism, guilt is a big theme. If you, if you don’t pray, you’re supposed to say this many many prayers. If you do something bad, you have this many, um, atonements that you need to do. Um, if you don’t go to church like Leslie was talking about every Sunday, oh, you’re not a true Catholic, oh, you’re bad.

1:29:45F: Yeah.

1:29:45Julia: And it’s just this damnation aspects about the religion that really don’t sit well with me. And I think it’s something that I still struggle with to this day because I do -- on the one hand, I want to respect where I came from and my lineage and my parents and their religion and my grandparents and my whole family, but then on the other hand, there are things that really don’t sit right with me. And as I think about within the next 10 to 15 years, um, having children, or like what I will be passing down to people and the, um, morals and values that I hold dear, how, how will that work? Um,

1:30:48Maceo: How’s it gonna work for your kids to develop their moral values, you’re saying?

1:30:51Julia: Say that again?

1:30:54Maceo: You’re saying you’re wondering what it’s gonna look like for your kids to start to learn their moral values?

1:31:00Julia: No, I’m just thinking like, am I gonna raise my kids in a religion?

1:31:06Alessia: Yeah.

1:31:07Julia: And, um, or not? And not to say that I’m having kids anytime soon, but I just think having such a complicated relationship with God and my faith that it is something that’s like on the back of my mind. And like even, even when I was in high school, for some reason, because to me family is really important, and, um, I think it’s one of the most important things out there. Um, your, your close, um, your friends, your family, all those people that you’re able to, to touch their heart in your world. Um, it’s very important to me. So yeah, I kind of went off on a tangent there, but it

1:32:10Alessia: was interesting.

1:32:13Julia: I hope it made sense.

1:32:14Maceo: I mean, I think so.

1:32:16Alessia: Yeah, I

1:32:17Maceo: think those are valid things to be concerned about. I think guilt in particular is not like -- I don’t know, it’s something that people should be more conscientious of and the impact it has on them.

1:32:26Alessia: And I definitely feel like I feel the same way, especially being raised Catholic Yeah.

1:32:36Julia: Um, yeah, just having that presence at the back of your mind of, is what I’m -- I don’t know if your mom would ever say this to you, but would you ever like have that at the back of your mind where like I would picture like my mom’s voice Is that what like Jesus would do, or do what Jesus would do? No,

1:33:03Maceo: my mom wouldn’t say that to me.

1:33:06Julia: Well, I don’t know. I think my mom maybe was a little bit of a helicopter parent. She could have laid off a little bit. But yeah, she would always say that, and I think maybe she didn’t think that I was listening. You know, little kids, they go about their day, they do what they do. But I definitely was listening, and I think that it’s important for the child to have all of these tools accessible to them, know about it, and make their own path and decisions rather than Having a bunch of information and standards shoved into their mind.

1:33:56Alessia: Yeah.

1:33:57Julia: Um, and expect them to obey and carry out and do these things without so much as wanting to do them or knowing why they’re doing them. Um, there’s really a huge distinction in that that’s so important. And that’s like the make or break in any religion or in any teaching of a subject.

1:34:22Maceo: Is it why you’re learning it?

1:34:24Julia: Why I’m learning what?

1:34:28Maceo: Like what you’re saying. I’m asking, that’s what you’re saying. Like the, like the most important thing to learn when teaching anything you were saying is I’m mildly distracted, like, hearing Isaac eat. I’m not gonna lie.

1:34:43Julia: You’re fine, you’re fine. No, I’m just saying, instead of -- if you have -- so I’m talking about me, because when I think of myself, um, I think of myself as kind of like the kid that I used to be, especially when I talk about religion, just because I, I’m not really a practicing Catholic. So when I really talk about religion, I’m talking about my inner child that still kind of carries those Those experiences. Yeah, absolutely. So I’m talking about like if you were to have a child, or me as a child, and I think that the religion that I was brought up in, and my mom in particular, she would quote-unquote shove these notions of what you’re supposed to do, the standards of what you’re supposed to do, and I think it’s really important important, um, not to do that. It’s good to have those tools and that, that information and let the child grow and choose what they believe, what values they hold dear, and to have examples around them, um, rather than just having all of these -- this information and this huge weight upon their shoulders of This is what you need to do, and if you don’t do it, you’re gonna -- you’re damned. Yes, you’re going to hell if you don’t genuflect. Like, there are like all these little rituals.

1:36:10Maceo: What is genuflect?

1:36:11Alessia: Yeah, I don’t know what genuflect is.

1:36:12Julia: Genuflection is when you walk into your church and you go to your pew and you’re supposed to kneel down, actually touch your knee to the floor, and you’re supposed to make the sign of the cross, which is -- you know this?

1:36:27Alessia: Is it left or right first?

1:36:29Julia: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So your forehead, your heart, your left side, and then your right side. And you’re supposed to not do it to the priest, not do it to the statues. You’re supposed to do it to the body of Christ, which is the pieces of little bread in the tabernacle. And they’re just like all, all like these little things that like you’re supposed to do. That’s just like an example of one of them. But yeah, so what I’m saying is it’s important for that child to like be aware, know where they came from, but less so --

1:37:10Alessia: Push it on them.

1:37:12Julia: Push it on them. Yeah, because they need to choose. They need to find what’s right for them. And, um, if that’s what they want, then that’s great. But if it’s not, then, um, that’s their journey that they need to take, um, and that’s their experience in this lifetime, and, and that’s what, um, they need to go through. That’s their path. So yeah, I guess that’s why I keep saying that I just have this complicated relationship with God because even though I’ve stopped practicing as a Catholic, I still have like this inner me that was brought up in this way to like have like these like little thoughts that come into my mind like, oh, like you’re supposed to be doing this, like, oh, like, um,

1:38:08Maceo: You have intrusive thoughts about who you feel like you should be, like what you have to do in some situations?

1:38:13Julia: Yeah, like, so here’s like a weird example of this, but when I like -- and I actually don’t know if this is an actual thing or if it’s just like something my mom told me. I’ll actually have to Google this. This would be interesting if we found out.

1:38:30Alessia: Yeah, we can see.

1:38:30Julia: But my mom said that when you yawn and you don’t, um, like cover your mouth or like make the sign of the cross afterwards to like bless yourself, or it’s like superstitious basically.

1:38:45Alessia: Isn’t it if somebody like doesn’t say God bless you, then like you’ll stop breathing or something? That’s what I’ve heard, something like that.

1:38:53Julia: Maybe, but the one that she told me was that the devil can come into your mouth.

1:38:58Alessia: Oh.

1:38:59Julia: Or like something can possess you, something evil can come inside of you.

1:39:03Alessia: Oh my

1:39:04Julia: God. Jeez.

1:39:05Alessia: That’s terrifying.

1:39:06Julia: Yeah, that’s just --

1:39:07Alessia: Definitely don’t think that’s real.

1:39:08Julia: That’s a scary thought to have as a kid. And so --

1:39:11Maceo: Oh no.

1:39:12Julia: And so to this day, like, I’ll be yawning, doing my own thing, listening to music, studying, whatever. And you’ll be like, no.

1:39:23Alessia: And I’ll be

1:39:24Julia: like, oh. Is something inside of me right now? Really? Am I bad now? What’s going on?

1:39:30Alessia: Oh my God.

1:39:31Julia: I don’t know why I’m saying it in that way.

1:39:33Maceo: Yeah, I’m sure it’s not quite so like casual or like curious.

1:39:37Julia: But yeah, so that’s just one example of --

1:39:43Maceo: When you yawn, like you’ll just be like in a library yawning and you’ll have like --

1:39:46Alessia: That’s very interesting.

1:39:48Julia: Yeah.

1:39:49Maceo: That’s wild.

1:39:51Alessia: Wait, let me search it up. Let me see if there’s any research. Yeah,

1:39:54Maceo: Alessia’s been born.

1:39:56Julia: And it’s also complicated for me in particular. I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, Alessia, or maybe you have, Masea, or maybe you as well. Oh, Isaac entered. Isaac Kelly is now in the room. I don’t know.

1:40:09Maceo: Yeah, I mean, you gotta say it.

1:40:11Julia: Okay, whatever. Welcome, Isaac. If you want to share --

1:40:13Maceo: If you heard chewing, that was Isaac.

1:40:15E: I didn’t know what I was entering into. I apologize.

1:40:19Maceo: It’s all right, I didn’t kick you out. I wanted you to not be -- It’s in the Bible. Wow,

1:40:23Julia: it was in the Bible.

1:40:25Alessia: Muhammad says when you yawn -- oh, is this Muslim?

1:40:31Julia: Satan enters your mouth and then laughs at you from the inside of your body.

1:40:35Alessia: Oh, it’s, it’s, it’s not Catholic though.

1:40:45Maceo: I’d be curious.

1:40:46Julia: We’ll have to find other references.

1:40:48Maceo: Yeah, you should ask your mom.

1:40:51Julia: Yeah, but, um, for me in particular, what I was gonna say, I have a complicated relationship with my faith and God because, um, well, just hold on a second, because my mom also incorporates like other religions into my upbringing. So like she herself was such a, I guess, devout Catholic when I was younger, but then she kind of like switched middle school and high school to bring other ideas of Buddhism and Hinduism into my life. And --

1:41:27Maceo: Wow.

1:41:28Julia: Yeah, but it’s very confusing because like which one am I a part of? And like I know a lot about certain things, but like, if like I have a thought about that I’m supposed to be doing this because of this religion, but then the other one is like, what? Like, I’m just -- I feel very torn. And I said like, you might relate to this because I know your parents have different religions, so I don’t know if you’ve ever had that thought.

1:41:58Maceo: Like the conflict of like where you stand in relation to these 2 different framework or multiple frameworks. Yeah. Like that’ll kind of say things about who you are or who you ought to be.

1:42:08Julia: Yeah.

1:42:09Maceo: Like on different terms even.

1:42:11Julia: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know if you want to read what you found. What did you find?

1:42:14Alessia: Oh, I just found something. It was talking about just Catholicism and, and like sneezing

1:42:20Julia: and coughing and

1:42:21Alessia: yawning. It said sneezing, yawning, and the devil.

1:42:23Maceo: You don’t really have to move. No. You’re just louder.

1:42:26Alessia: Oh. Ever wonder why we pray for God’s blessing after someone sneezes? It comes from the ancient belief that a person’s breath was the same as their soul. When God made Adam, he breathed life into him. Thus, a myth grew up around this belief that a sneeze was thought to rapidly send the life of a person out of them. When this life leaves, a vacuum is left which could be filled by evil spirits.

1:42:49Julia: Very superstitious.

1:42:55Alessia: Yeah. Some French and English thought that yawning was another opportunity for the devil to enter. Thus you covered your mouth to bar his entrance. In Ireland, they would make the sign of the cross over their mouths while yawning. Still today, some Muslims believe this can happen when one yawns.

1:43:11Julia: Hmm, interesting.

1:43:12Maceo: St.

1:43:14Alessia: Mary’s Catholic Church in Texas. Thank you.

1:43:16F: I like that you quoted it.

1:43:19Maceo: Sources are cited. Sources are cited on this

1:43:23Alessia: podcast. I will include the MLA attached format if anyone wants If anyone wants to read, check it out.

1:43:31Julia: But yeah, I don’t know, do you want to, do you want to speak on your experience or nah?

1:43:36E: Sure. Um, yeah, you know, I think that’s interesting, not letting the devil into your mouth. I think that maybe it stems from Um, sneezing and other things that concern intaking, or intaking too many, like, biological things. Perhaps it was like people noticed that people that sneezing were dying, or that yawning -- when you were yawning, you weren’t at your best, you were like tired. And these are all like opportunities for physical maladies that they didn’t really understand, but they were all kind of of surrounded in like differences in the way people acted. So when you like sneezed, it was like, well, you might die next week because everybody that sneezes for some reason dies. And so they’re like, God bless you, maybe. Um, that’s just what I was thinking about after you said that. But I think my, my father is a lot more spiritual than my mother. and a lot more focused on the importance of religion. And my mom is pretty iconoclastic and not like purposefully -- not anti-religion, but like very skeptic.

1:44:58Maceo: What is iconoclastic?

1:45:00E: It means like directly opposing icons and like, like kind of antagonistic towards social structure, like formatted social structures. Like an iconoclast would be someone who tears down whatever is currently being projected as true or like iconic or like tearing down traditional values.

1:45:30Maceo: Okay.

1:45:31E: That are kind of out -- that they view as outdated. And I think That has been a conflict in their relationship more so than -- it’s like they just kind of don’t talk about it anymore, which I think is bad. I wish they did, um, but it’s like one of the conversations that they’ve decided subjectively not to have a conversation about for the sake of their marriage, which I think is unfortunate. I hope I don’t have a relationship like that. I, I think the relationship is fine, but that aspect of like not talking about something, yeah, just seems really like irresponsible to me and kind of sad that they can’t like talk about it because they know they’ll just get in a fight. Yeah. And I was like, my mom told me that, and I was like, I didn’t want to say anything, but I was like, damn, like that really makes me upset that you can’t have a conversation about a whole -- the whole topic of -- my mom’s like, no, we can’t, we get -- we, we -- your father and I don’t talk about politics, we don’t talk about religion anymore. And I was like, what? Like, you just don’t speak about that anymore? I thought that was ridiculous.

1:46:34F: Yeah.

1:46:35E: Um, but, you know, perhaps they appreciate -- I think it’s stressful for both of them. I think it’s stressful because my mom is a lawyer and my father is very spiritual, so he speaks in spiritual jargon and my mother speaks in like litigation, like dissecting every argument that he has. Like, and that’s not really the point of my dad’s way of speaking. It’s more so like something else, but this is very off topic.

1:47:00Maceo: No, you’re

1:47:01F: saying shit.

1:47:01E: Um, but like when I was younger, I’d read through the Bible with my mom, and I think in, in like some -- in a passive way, it was teaching me the Bible. But all we would do is kind of like pick apart like parts of it that didn’t make sense and like talk about like the inconsistencies. And I learned about the Bible, but through like learning about the ways -- I just didn’t -- it didn’t make sense to me. Even from a very -- I was like, where did Cain and Abel’s wives come from? They’re never mentioned before, and then they’re suddenly like they have wives now. And I just found that weird. But I think it was good for me to like get a -- get like an appreciation for religion, but also not be religious. I think that’s, that’s how I would describe, like, understanding the importance of having religion in my life but also not being a religious person, which is how I grew up. I think that’s a good way to describe it.

1:47:55Maceo: Oh yeah. Cheers. Cheers. Yeah.

1:48:11F: Iconoclastic, characterized by attack or cherished beliefs or institutions. Hmm, I don’t know if that --

1:48:17Maceo: characterized by attack of beliefs or institutions on cherished beliefs or institutions. Oh yeah, interesting. Thank you for giving us definition for that.

1:48:33F: I don’t think it worked.

1:48:35Maceo: I didn’t hear anything.

1:48:36G: Iconoclastic.

1:48:38Maceo: Ooh.

1:48:38G: Iconoclastic. Iconoclastic.

1:48:41E: She doesn’t even pronounce the I.

1:48:43G: Yeah, iconoclastic.

1:48:45Maceo: Yeah, come on guys, uh, if whoever makes AI hears this, we need better AI because the I is not silent.

1:48:51F: Iconoclastic.

1:48:52Maceo: Yeah.

1:48:54E: Yes. Iconoclastic. Iconoclastic.

1:48:58F: Icono.

1:49:02Maceo: Well, I appreciate you making time for the We Them Niggas podcast in your lives this evening on, uh, April 19th. 4/20 right now. Oh, it’s April 20th now. Yeah, we took, we took many, many, many a minutes.

1:49:20Alessia: Oh,

1:49:22Maceo: 2 wordles in one episode. Yeah, hand me a phone, I’ll do it.

1:49:27E: I’ve never lost the Wordle.

1:49:28Alessia: Me neither.

1:49:29Maceo: We got Wordle pros here. Wordle pros only.

1:49:32Alessia: Here, wanna do it with me?

1:49:34Maceo: Yeah.

1:49:34Alessia: Okay, give me a 5-letter word. Anything.

1:49:38E: Iconoclastic.

1:49:40Alessia: We could do icons.

1:49:42E: No.

1:49:44Alessia: No?

1:49:45Maceo: You could do icons.

1:49:47E: Do, do, do a do.

1:49:49Alessia: A do. Yeah, I always do a do.

1:49:52E: Because it gives you like all your vowels. It’s hard not to lose.