0:21Kamal HubbardRight, right. Well, I was doing some studies over at the Rock Center for Corporate Governance and I fell into blockchain, blockchain technology, and Bitcoin. And I saw a project that was related to, uh, to a blockchain dealing with music and had a token associated with it. So it was an alternative currency dealing with music and on a blockchain. And so I thought, okay, you know what, there’s a lot of fraud already in the cryptocurrency space. It brings together 2 things that I really love and am intrigued by, you know, the music business and cryptocurrency. So I thought, why not learn a little bit more? I put some money into it and got to know Bryce and wanted to kind of understand what was really going on in the background.
0:21Kamal HubbardWhat were the controls that were in place for the crowd sale? And I wanted to know, you know, was everybody getting their tokens the way that they should should be. Was Bryce accessible to the community who had invested or received tokens in the crowd sale? And then just got immersed in the community and we got to meet one night and we talked about our respective backgrounds and, you know, talked a lot about fraud in the music industry. And previously I was working on a project dealing with bribery and corruption. And we see a parallel in the music industry when it comes to payola. And, you know, in the course of me being involved in this project, speaking with artists, payola is very much still active and alive.
0:21Kamal HubbardAnd I mean, you’d be surprised to hear that it happens here locally, you know, with some music organizations and entities here.
2:13AAnd just to interrupt you and excuse my ignorance, What does payola mean?
2:16Kamal HubbardSo payola, I mean, when it first began in, you know, the ’50s and the ’60s when music was, well, music business was really starting to build and get much larger and get somewhat corporatized. Music businesses would pay, or music organizations or managers would pay radio stations to play songs. and play songs so many times a day, so many times an hour, well, usually once an hour, and make sure that songs were continuously being played so they could chart at a certain position. So, yeah, it became outlawed, but the practice still is around. It’s just a little bit different than the way it used to be.
3:06ASo it’s with the radio stations?
3:09Kamal HubbardYeah, with radio stations. And I mean, as far as I know, I think it may have happened with some other outlets too, but, you know, in its inception, that’s how it started. And really recently, it’s also shown up in radio stations as well. I mean, it’s stayed present with radio stations.
3:28AAmazing. So really, some of those hits that got to the top of the charts years ago may not have if they weren’t being paid.
3:36Kamal HubbardRight. So, you know, some of the largest record companies, essentially, Essentially, we’re paying, you know, to make sure that, you know, certain songs are being played so many times a day. And I mean --
3:48AIt’s just bribery, really.
3:49Kamal HubbardRight, that is bribery. I mean, you see it in other areas of, you know, corporate life or corporate activity. And, you know, it’s just seen as a cost of doing business, you know. So how can we implement blockchain technology and avoid things like payola? You know, how can we implement blockchain technology and implement, or excuse me, avoid money laundering or other types of fraud? I mean, piracy too. Maybe we can at least combat piracy with blockchain. I mean, I don’t think it’s totally gonna eradicate all these problems, but now that we have a system that’s verifiable and it’s transparent, I think it’ll minimize the ways that these types of fraud schemes occur.
4:38AAnd how do you see the blockchain working in the music industry? Would it be with tokens?
4:45Kamal HubbardWell, I think tokens are just one example of how it could work. There’s other examples of how blockchains can be implemented without using a token system or it being tied to economics. whatsoever. So one of the projects that we’ve worked on with TAO Networks is Band Name Blockchain. And what that does is it sets up a record of bands and band names and band members. So let’s say you and I want to start a band and, you know, 2 years from now someone else wants to use that same band name that we started. But hey, all we do is look back at the blockchain and say, hey, we have that name first. We may not be as active as you guys are, but, you know, we staked our claim 2 years ago. So you guys have to be version 2.0 or just be a little bit more original.
5:36ASo it’s like domain names, really. You get to be a GoDaddy, the blockchain GoDaddy of band names.
5:43Kamal HubbardExactly. And so in that instance, there is no token that’s associated with our band. However, if our band starts to get popular, And we wanna try to monetize as an entity, then we say, hey, let’s get a token together. Let’s see if our fans wanna engage with us on really on a peer-to-peer level and help us raise some funds so we can get on the road, maybe do a college tour or maybe sell some merchandise or sell our own tickets. Then that’s an example of where a token would be a little bit more appropriate.
6:20AAnd I know that in the music industry there’s always been problems and often litigations over the years of songwriters claiming that someone’s stolen part of their song. And even with top bands this has happened. So I gather something like that, the blockchain could also support songs as well?
6:42Kamal HubbardMusic? Well, yeah, definitely. So if, you know, once again going back to our example, you and I create a piece of music You know, you’re the singer, the dynamic singer-songwriter, and, you know, I’m just -- I’m an engineer. And, you know, we have a split of maybe you get 80%, I get 20% because I helped record -- or we helped record the song together. And that work goes onto the blockchain at a certain time, and a digital signature is assigned to that piece of work.
7:10ATo the music itself?
7:12Kamal HubbardTo the music itself. And it’s stored on the blockchain. Right? So we have rights in that piece of data. And if someone wants to say, hey, you know what? We really like that. We want to sample that for a nice little rap song and use our hook or use our tune or our melody.
7:31AYeah.
7:32Kamal HubbardYou know, or, you know, you’re part of the song.
7:34AYeah.
7:34Kamal HubbardAnd, you know, we want to sample it. Okay, well, so they would go to that asset. access that access, and we would essentially allow them the chance to use it in their piece of music.
7:48ABut I know some people say it can happen accidentally, that songwriters and musicians often carry music in their heads, and they don’t know where they picked it up. And, you know, and I remember when I was young hearing about all these different litigations that were going, oh, you know, this part of that song was just the same as our song. That’s going to be hard, really, even with the blockchain. But I guess a bit, a little bit more possible and more transparent because there’s never been a database like the blockchain that could actually store all the music, right?
8:23Kamal HubbardRight, right. Well, and I think to us -- well, I think to a certain extent that that is a difficult thing to prove. Oh, who came up with what song first? You know, in whose head was it in first? But what you can prove is that it was stored at a certain time first, and it’s almost like a possession thing. You know, we basically staked our claim and we said we got here first, so this is essentially our property at that point. So --
8:51AWell, yeah, so things could really, at least it could support musicians, and as Bryce was saying, obviously a lot of musicians and artists aren’t really business-minded often, and that is a -- they can be taken advantage of. And so hopefully the blockchain will protect and provide a new platform that will make it easier. We also had another panel last year on the blockchain and media, and the startup entrepreneurs that came to that were founders of companies that were actually selling media via the blockchain. And again, they basically said that what this opened up was that individual media producers like Jeremy on the camera could actually sell his piece of video and no one really else could like use it unless they bought it off him through, you know, with micro coins basically. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, that’s like a whole new area that’s opened up, and that could -- was never possible years ago.
10:06Kamal HubbardRight. And I think the blockchain will actually allow artists and musicians to, to kind of be that hybrid business person and artist if they choose to be that. I mean, I think there’s a lot of administrators and intermediaries who feel like they could be threatened by you know, the implementation of blockchain, but actually it increases their value proposition. So if you have the artist who just wants to focus on music, Yeah. that administrator can come along and say, hey, let me handle the business side for you. You know, we’ll do all the micropayments for you. We’ll handle all the blockchain. We’ll do all that administrative work for you. We just want you to get out there, write the music, perform the music, and focus on your craft.
10:55AAnd then the blockchain is making it much more transparent, so they’re less easily to be hoodwinked or robbed or, you know, as what’s happened over the years, I guess.
11:06Kamal HubbardExactly. And once again, that allows the artist to have the choice of, okay, well, hey, I have the tools in front of me to make sure I see where, you know, my music is being used or my art or my works are being used. I can go to a public blockchain, you know, just like checking my mail. I can check the blockchain and see how this is all being utilized. Or, you know, I could just have someone do it for me.
11:32AFantastic. Well, I’m really excited. I have very creative children and have been creative in my own right, more with human dynamics. So I think that it’s wonderful that creatives will be supported through all these changes that are coming, and I think it’s just great.
11:53Kamal HubbardYeah, well, thanks for, you know, having us here and allowing us to discuss this a little bit more. And, you know, hopefully we can get the word out and get people thinking about blockchains and music and how they can all come together.
12:06AFantastic. Thanks so much, Kamal.
