2:03Carlos Ivan MerinoAnd it wasn’t until like 2018 when I really got involved into the, like, you know, the blockchain space. It was really 2017, but really 2018 is when I really went full in. I got a group of like interns and myself, We wrote like a paper on how to incorporate like blockchain at the state, county, and local levels of government. And the, you know, like the bill, they actually, it was made into a bill and the bill, they were able to testify in front of a committee. About a year later, the governor ended up signing it. And that, you know, that was in 2019. But like to fast forward a little bit more in 2021, You know, I remember a friend of mine reaching out to me telling me about, you know, this new protocol that’s on like, you know, like CoinGecko.
2:03Carlos Ivan MerinoIt was like made the top 10. I took a look at it and it was Internet Computer Protocol. I thought nothing of it and I said, eh, you know, like this is, you know, it’s up there, you know, it’s pretty, I’m pretty impressed ’cause I never heard of it. And I just kind of brushed it off. And it wasn’t until like 2 years later when I was working on doing some like websites and stuff like that, that I was looking at a tutorial video on web development. And this lady that was doing this video started talking about ICP and what it could do. And when I started looking at it more and more, I mean, I could just tell you, I just went down the rabbit hole.
2:03Carlos Ivan MerinoI just started any place that I could find, you know, talks with Dominic Williams, you know, talking about ICP, or if I was able to find anything that, you know, anything that talked about ICP, I was in it, you know, because I just was really, really impressed at what it was capable of doing. And I would look at it and just say, man, like, if, if you’re not involved in this space, you know, the -- yeah, I mean, this is, this is the future. I could see it as something, you know, that truly revolutionary. And I ended up like also following people on Twitter, following people on YouTube just to try and learn as much as I could.
2:03Carlos Ivan MerinoAnd I’m still learning every day. I’m learning more and more about ICP. And I even went to this community conference out in Hollywood, Florida, which was like sponsored by Coden State. And it was, it was a great, great event because I got to see people that were actually building stuff. And I got to hear some from some amazing speakers. So, you know, like, ever, ever since I got involved, I’m just really grateful for the opportunity to be involved and just to learn from, you know, the more I learn and also from the people that I can learn from. So that’s pretty much like a, I guess, like a brief rundown of how I got involved.
5:46Kamal HubbardYeah, thanks for that. And yeah, it’s always interesting, you know, how the blockchain and government pieces come together. And, you know, what has been your sense of how blockchain is being adopted in New Jersey in particular? Because I know New York sees it one way and It makes sense, right? But how’s New Jersey warming up to blockchain and blockchain adoption from the public sector?
6:19Carlos Ivan MerinoIn all honesty, like I can say it’s really in its infancy. I would say the public sector, they are aware of blockchain, but they don’t utilize it. And that’s the thing that I look at and I, I mean, I say to myself, man, this is something that, I mean, New Jersey should be taking advantage. You know, unfortunately they’re not because they just look at what is being put out by the media. They would just see, okay, you know, like the volatility of cryptocurrencies, oh, we can’t get involved. But they don’t really look at like blockchain and, you know, what -- some of the real-world applications that can be used.
6:19Carlos Ivan MerinoAnd unfortunately, you know, it’s kind of like it’s laying dormant because going back when the bill that was passed for this task force, it went through, the governor signed it, a task force was put together. And I do know that they have met on a couple of occasions, but unfortunately COVID hit and, you know, everything took the sideline, you know, like especially that task force. And it hasn’t been revisited since. And right now, you know, nothing’s really been done in the state. And when you look at digital assets, you know, there are bills that are coming out, but people are trying to look to what New York has been doing with, you know, cracking down on stuff.
6:19Carlos Ivan Merino’Cause again, people, they’re not well educated about what’s going on in the space, so people are afraid. There’s that fear, fear of like, you know, the consumer being, you know, like I guess them losing money and stuff like that. Or, you know, they don’t really look at the real potential of blockchain. I hope that is a good explanation of where blockchain stands here in New Jersey. It’s, I mean, even when you look at the private sector, the private sector could also do more too. you know, like the private sector, public sector right now here in New Jersey, I would still say it’s, it’s early, very early.
8:27Kamal HubbardYeah. And, you know, I think this kind of touches on what you said earlier about ICP and, you know, what the Internet Computer, the, the long-term proposition that it, uh, provides. It’s, you know, to me it seems like it can really have a strong position in Web3 and building out Web3. And, but you said you’ve done that deep dive in the rabbit hole. I almost feel like it’s like I almost have to learn blockchain all over again with ICP, which is interesting and engaging.
9:08Carlos Ivan MerinoYes.
9:09Kamal HubbardBut like, what were some of the things in particular specifically that, you know, really drew you into it and that you learned that makes this network different from a lot of other Okay, so the first thing, first and foremost, was being able to build a static site on ICP.
9:31Carlos Ivan MerinoLike when I saw this video and they said you can actually build a site on-chain and you can definitely put this out there and no one’s going to be able to take it down. I was just like blown away. And when I heard Dominic Williams talk about, you know, just the potential of this, I mean, it just blew my mind. Like I said to myself, my God, why isn’t anybody else doing this? This is something that people should be doing. You know, when you talk about censorship and the whole idea of a decentralized cloud, a crypto cloud that also got my attention. And again, that’s something that I can see people doing.
9:31Carlos Ivan MerinoAnd also when they talk about like gas fees, you know, like when you look at ICP, you know, you don’t have to worry about that. You know, it’s like, that’s something that people, it’s not like when you’re using Ethereum or anything, any other like, you know, like blockchain, you know, it’s like you always have to look at gas fees, but over here it’s not. you know, it’s not something that you have to worry about. You know, it’s, as long as you have a good working product, you know, that, that is not something that one should, you know, a user has to worry about. And that was something that also, you know, like surprised me.
9:31Carlos Ivan MerinoIn addition, the internet identity, that was something else that like it surprised me. I, when I would look at it, I was like, wait a second, but how is this possible? I just, I mean, I was still like hesitant, but the more I looked at it, it all made sense. I was like, this is so much better than, than, you know, than when you try and open up a wallet anywhere else. You know, it’s, it’s, you got to make sure you write down your keys. I would literally write down my keys on a sheet of paper and I would keep it safe. But over here with you know, ICP, I don’t have to worry about that.
9:31Carlos Ivan MerinoYou know, I, I just, I use my biometrics and, you know, I’m good. And that’s something that, you know, like, I, I wish more and more people would like know because like there, there’s a lot of things that ICP and the, the community, that’s a lot of things that they’re doing that’s just, it’s really, really great, far better than what you see normally on, on the regular blockchain.
12:05Kamal HubbardYeah, yeah, like I said, it’s -- I’m learning all this new stuff, and it’s good to have conversations with someone like you who’s been in the community a lot longer than I have, and it just points me in, in new directions. And so, you know, I’ve learned a lot from you just in talking with you, and that’s definitely why I wanted to, you know, uh, have this conversation. And, you know, I’m still, like I said, operating on a surface level and I want to convey information that’s like not too overly technical yet and expose as many people and inspire people to want to look into the Internet Computer themselves too.
12:05Kamal HubbardSo I just really like that this is like a global community and you have hubs operating around the world to get people to build and learn more. So, you know, It so far, things have been off to a really great start. And, but, you know, that’s, you talked about what inspired you. I think some of the things for me that I find very interesting is, is definitely like, I want to take a deeper dive into like the cybersecurity aspects. Obviously, the, the on-chain crypto cloud concept is very intriguing, but I think the integration of the Bitcoin blockchain and down the road the Ethereum blockchain to make ICP as this orchestrator, you know, of all these other blockchains to me is really where I’m like, Wow.
12:05Kamal HubbardOkay, that’s pretty interesting. And it creates something completely different in DeFi for me as well, where just like you said, you have your internet identity and that’s protected on ICP, but you’re still able to interact with all those other blockchains once again. So it could once again, bring about something interesting when it comes to DeFi in particular, where you’re not using a bridge where, you know, we see almost like week after week another bridge gets hacked or compromised or something like that.
14:33Carlos Ivan MerinoYes, that’s true. That is true. And, and when you talk about cKBTC, that’s also another thing that, you know, when it rolled out, it was amazing. It was great to see something like that happen. And then Also, the thing that I look at is how ICP is being accepted in other parts of the world. I mean, of course, you know, over in Switzerland, you look at the city of Lugano, it was great that, you know, that with the partnership that was done recently. But what I found amazing was, I mean, when you take a look at the app that they have, you know, you can pay for services on this application, you know, city services, you can go to shops and you can shop. And this this is all using, you know, an app with, you know, that’s using ICP and now they’re integrating CKBTC. So it just goes to show you that if a city like this in Europe can do that, you know, being here in the States, why can’t states or the, you know, the country itself, you know, try and look at what ICP is doing and use that to kind of move the country forward when it comes to like blockchain policy?
15:50Kamal HubbardYou know, being in the public sector, there’s a couple of answers or ways, ways to answer that question, but I actually want to take a couple steps back. So you mentioned zkBTC, that is ChainKey Bitcoin or ChainKey BTC. So can you explain just your understanding of what that is and how it works for everyone listening?
16:19Carlos Ivan MerinoSure. So the, the way that I look at, or from what I’ve learned on about CKBTC is that, you know, it’s ChainKey cryptography. So it’s when you have Bitcoin and if you were to try and work with any other blockchain, you know, it’s, it’s, you’ve got to go through a bridge. However, with ChainKey, what happens is that there is like a canister that you can deposit your Bitcoin and you get this Bitcoin clone, which is a, or a Bitcoin twin, and that is termed as cKBTC. So you’re not really going through a bridge or getting something that’s like a wrapped Bitcoin or wrapped Ethereum. You know, it is, it’s like a clone and, you know, when you’re trying to do any sort of transaction, if you’re working on the Bitcoin network, it’s going to take you, you know, over 15, I’m saying 15 is being nice, but you know, you’re going to be waiting a long time for a transaction to go through.
16:19Carlos Ivan MerinoHowever, with CKBTC, your transactions are going to be very, very fast. And you know, that’s something that, that like if you look at what ICP is doing, that, that’s something that’s great because that’s what we need. You know, it’s a, You don’t want something that’s gonna lag. You want something that’s gonna be quick. And I hope I’m explaining myself correctly. You know, I just, I’m just going off of what I remember learning about it.
17:57Kamal HubbardYeah, and I’m definitely not trying to put you on the spot because, you know, it’s a technical question and there’s different layers and technical levels to it. But I think you touched on the important parts of, you know, you’re basically able to interact with the Bitcoin blockchain using ICP almost in an instantaneous fashion with a super low transactional cost associated with it. So --
18:25Carlos Ivan MerinoExactly.
18:26Kamal HubbardIt almost makes, to me, that’s why it makes so much sense, right?
18:30ALike --
18:30Kamal HubbardExactly. Dealing with the Bitcoin blockchain and getting the network congestion and the high fees sometimes, especially when you’re really trying to, you know, do business and transact and it gets frustrating. Now you can do it once again, using ICP in a more secure manner, a quicker manner, and cheaper manner. Like, those things just -- it makes sense, right? So that’s why, you know, once again, I’m excited to see what happens with Ethereum and Ethereum virtual machine style blockchains. Once those integrations take place, it’s like, well, then ICP just to me just kind of seems like the, the answer.
19:15Carlos Ivan MerinoExactly.
19:17Kamal HubbardSo I don’t know it, and I don’t -- my thing is like, I don’t want to go down the route of like shilling, and I’m not talking about price or anything like that, but like, of course the technology once again speaks for itself. And, um, we’re also seeing that they’re putting forward resources so everybody is included in this too, like Exactly. So, you know, to me, that also makes them different from other blockchains. They’re putting, you know, this funding where their mouth is, right? They’re putting their money where their mouth is. They say, hey, we want a more inclusive web. And, you know, we haven’t really -- or a more inclusive Web3, excuse me. And we haven’t really quite seen that in blockchain. Certain networks will be like, oh, hey, you can build on our blockchain and, you know, pack your bags. Because, you know, when we take off to the moon, you’ll be on board with us, right? Instead, ICP is like, here, here are resources from the beginning, build with us. And as time goes on, everyone who’s building, the value will be shown over the years. And then everybody essentially, we all win together. I’m not using the Wagmi term quite possibly the right way there, but you know where I’m going with it.
20:41AYeah.
20:44Carlos Ivan MerinoYeah. But yeah, I definitely, yeah, I see ICP, you know, like from when I first learned about ICP, it was more of just hearing about it, seeing things, but just thinking nothing of it. You know, I never really gave it a chance, but when I started learning about, about it, I was just amazed at how inclusive it is.
21:08AYeah.
21:09Carlos Ivan Merinoand its capabilities. And I really see it as, as, you know, it’s a revolutionary product. You know, it’s, it’s something that can definitely, you know, when applied to real-world applications, it can do a lot. It can do a lot. And especially when you talk about cybersecurity, in terms of cybersecurity, when you can build something that, you know, is not going to be taken taken down, you know, that, that’s, that’s great, especially if you look in the news with things that are going on, like with, I guess, people being hacked, data being stolen. This is something that can be used to prevent that.
21:47AYeah.
21:51Kamal HubbardAnd that’s, like I said, that’s a whole different thing, just the cybersecurity aspect. So, you know, there’s so much that I, I need to really continue to immerse myself with and learn, but you know, along the way, I want to, you know, take folks listening with me. And I mean, like I said, that’s why I thought you were a great guest to talk to. I mean, we, we, we have these similar backgrounds operating in, in the public sector, but then having this passion for blockchain and, you know, what brought us to ICP. So, Carlos, thanks again for joining us, and I’ll let you have the last word.
22:30Carlos Ivan MerinoOh, it’s my pleasure. Again, thank you so much. And I do appreciate the stuff that you’re doing. You know, I did see some video you did on the NNS or about NNS. So I thought that that was great. And you’re doing a great job, man. So I wish you the best of luck on this journey. And, you know, you know, I just wish you the best.
22:49Kamal HubbardLikewise, likewise. And I’m looking forward to meeting you in person, either at a conference or next time in the East Coast or anything, man.
22:59AIt’s --
22:59Kamal HubbardYeah, you let me know if you’re ever around here.
23:02Carlos Ivan MerinoYou let me know. I’m more than happy to meet up.
23:04Kamal HubbardAll right, all right. No, I can’t wait. But in the meantime, we’ll, we’ll be in touch. And for everybody listening, don’t just make it a good day, make it a great day. A great day with crypto. Crypto with Kamal. Catch you on the next one.
