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0:01Yeah, you know, DIY, you know, make it happen. Honestly, this is a real cool, like, way to do an interview. It’s not like in the back or something. Yeah, people might be like, it’s distracting. Why do they have, like, a back wall? No, we really in this shit, bitch. Party happening right there. And we’re talking about real shit. We live. Hell yeah, bro. You think the back room isn’t real? Yeah, no, but it’s like, it’s like, yeah, it’s like recontextualized shit. It’s like, yeah, you think it’s all dumb niggas at the party. No, smart motherfuckers. At the party. At the party. At the party. Step out the party just to let y’all know
0:30At the party, in the back Alright, are we ready? Ayo, we ready Alright
0:41We’re at ETH Denver in the back room Yeah, yeah Shout out to FWB for giving me money The community tree Facts Everybody must eat Alright
0:56We Them Niggas and we’re here at ETH Denver Shout out to Amir and We Them Media You know we rocking the beanies Shout out to Russ for coordinating that I got on my shirt as well, shout out to Gabrielle for coordinating the V1 of the We Them Media merchandise for Art Basel, yeah Cop that shit Uh-huh, uh-huh, look at that, we got angles, angles, angles with this camera Yes, so we’re here at ETH Denver Yep How’d it happen? How’d it happen? You made it happen, bro Booyah It was about me, nigga, it was doing it So that came to me and was like, hey, yo, you want to interview some niggas in fucking Denver?
1:31I was like, yeah, let’s go I got a prop ready. Oh, word. Just review that shit. Okay, go on Google. Look at that. Sounds good to me, bro. Got it done. Now we here. And now I’m mad at it. I ain’t mad at it, bro. Appreciate you. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you, man. Like, I feel like getting into F3, coming home to Philly after graduation, you were the first person I met in this space at all. Yeah, yeah. And I definitely appreciated that. I remember you telling me about FWB, about Fest, about Toby Shore and Life After Lifestyle. I remember watching the video and reading the essay.
2:02and even getting on Zora because of that, and I feel like you’ve been a big part of my journey, I feel like coming into this space, and so I was like, I’ve been keen to get to know you more, and I feel like, though I remember I did deliver you the Uber Eats one day, I really didn’t see you that much until we went to Oasis this year. It’s wild because I forgot what the hell I was ordering, but I was in the middle of a stream session, and I don’t know what it was, but anyway, I look at my phone, and I’m like, it’s Maceo name, actually, I don’t even think it was that, I think it was, I forgot what the name was on there, but anyway, I’m going downstairs, I’m just like, what are you doing delivering me food?
2:42Yeah, man, I caught you on my phone. That thing was hilarious, bro, but it was too dark, so he doesn’t know where I live still. That’s true, the anonymity persists, as it should be I am not doxxed yet But what’s it called? I was super happy to see you at Oasis this year, I feel like we did get to connect more there Yeah, 100% Discussed a little bit more what you think it might look like and what was your experience at Oasis? Shout out to Steph and we did interview with him earlier today as well Yo, Oasis was like the right type of R&R and R&D, you know what I’m saying?
3:10You got the rest, recovery, and research and development at the same time It’s nothing like having a really dope island locale and just being able to soak in that dope ass weather But also everybody else is happy because the weather is great, the food is good, the environment is amazing So we’re all just bouncing off of each other’s ideas, we’re all interested in what each other is doing So Oasis is like to me I think like the perfect way to kick start a year Like, you know, you’re there for the knowledge and learning about consumer crypto and like seeing real use cases terraforming the island in real time
3:47Like, shout out to Beam, what they did with the open bar was ill Like, I ended up using that for blackhand activation two weeks ago in New York City, right? So, being able to see that in real time and then transfer that information and the aspects of what you can do there and other contexts was huge for me. So, I’m looking forward to Oasis Part 2 next year. Hopefully we do an activation there, but yeah, I mean, that was the perfect catalyst. And it was a phenomenal start off to the year, I feel like. Big facts. I feel like it was, I was excited to be at a conference in a space with just predominantly
4:26black people. Hell yeah When are we going to see that again, and I feel like the ratio is going to go down, so it was cool to see it when it was real, and I look forward to being in more spaces where it’s real, but I’m, yeah, I think that was a great start to the year, and ETH Denver has been super dope, I know, we were supposed to do some interviews together at Russell’s event, but the car broke down, that situation happened, and we don’t really get to do as many together as we would have liked, but regardless, here we are getting to rehash how Denver has been, and so, how has Denver been for you, like, what have been the highlights?
4:54That’s my first time being in Denver and doing an ETH Denver event, so for me it was like, I think if I had gone to all the other ones, my whole view of it would be a lot different, but I think the fact that like ETH Denver has had time to refine itself, anyone else that I’ve talked to has said like this is like one of the better ones, like it’s more refined, the brands know what they’re doing or what they want, like there’s clarity with like the vendors that are here, the quality of the vendors, Vendors that’s showing up with like a legitimate product that works is really unique to a lot of cool activations of just like simply like seeing how crypto has gone from entering in a seed phrase and matching doing all this other like long winded shit to like one or two clicks to get to where you need to go. Like I think the space overall has just benefited from a lot of the hard work we’ve done over the past three years.
5:50So being able to go to a conference now, I think for somebody who’s like, new to crypto, they’d be like, oh my god, this is a really cool, fun world to be a part of Because it’s a lot simpler and easier for them to deal with I’d say like personally too, like, dope ass connections
6:06Like, just also being able to see people like you and a lot of other folks that I know from a while Like, all of us thriving, all of us like finding like our own niche in the space It’s dope hearing everyone else work and network with people when they’re like oh so what do you do this and the third like I’m in the back like smiling like yo like we’ve all arrived kind of so it’s been really cool to to see the convergence of all our worlds kind of like me in Denver and it’s like a really dope awesome conference to be a part of so absolutely and I think I think you said that so perfectly we have all arrived and I feel like this year feels so full circle actually right because last year actually they come to eat Denver I came
6:48I came with people from Boys Club, that’s who I ended up rooming with, which is dope because I didn’t know how I was going to make it. I was in this program with an organization called Landmark that I do, and one of my friends married me and was like, Oh yeah, ETH Denver, you’re not going there? You want a crypto podcast? ETH Denver’s the biggest ETH conference in the United States. I’m like, oh, I gotta get there. And so I came, I had my little microphone, but no cameras, and I was like, I’ll do interviews. I was too shy to do interviews. No interviews were made in the making of that trip. But it was okay.
7:13This year we came back, we came back with production value, we came back with microphones, we came back with a team. That part, shout out to the team Shout out to the team, Julien, we got Gabrielle, we got Thornton in the B&B as well Contributing vibes occasionally here and there and yourself So you know, all they can say is thank you And I’m just so thrilled to be here this year and be able to really be highlighting and platforming for people who look like us that are in this space I think it’s so important people understand there is representation and this space isn’t just about money, you know, I feel like
7:40it can feel like money’s not for me or I’m not a tech person but I feel like the revolution is for everybody And I feel like understanding what movements are happening in this space is important And so yeah, I’m excited to be here, and I guess to flip the attention back over to you Thank you for doing the interview with me, thank you for coming out Tell us about how you got into Web3, how did you get to be here, like Shit Okay, so I remember, first touchpoint of Bitcoin, 2011 A friend of mine, I was just about to get into college, he’s like, yo, read this white paper, it’ll change your life
8:16I was like, yeah, alright, whatever, dubbed that shit A couple years later, Reddit, I was like, okay, interesting, I don’t know shit about finance Or like anything related to like financialization of markets and stuff like that Again, dubbed it again 2016, 17 rolls around, I kind of warm up to it, right? Like obviously, heard the news, 8th hitting an all-time high, Bitcoin going crazy I’m like, wait a minute, I’ve heard these things before Go back to the thing Oh, that’s what they were talking about That’s wild Alright 2017, 18, I worked at a startup called Romeo Out in New York City I had learned about tokenomics at that point in time
8:59And so what we were trying to do was Build a sort of like loyalty and rewards framework For people who were What’s tokenomics for the audience? Alright, so I gotta take a couple steps back Romeo was like a application where it was like on-demand services for people who had hobbies so like if you were a DJ a like a clown for example or a tutor or whatever you could set up your service on Romeo and then the only the way that you got exposure was that if people personally recommended you so it was a recommendation engine first and foremost so your goal was to get recommended by your local community and then recommended by the rest of the New York community and then that way you’d get like more bookings problem was
9:41was, was that like folks who were really good at their services didn’t know how to promote themselves. Many of them like had bad photography, like housekeepers, like had bad photography of how well they had clean the house or like copywriting had like, there was no way you could communicate like your service or what you did effectively or like how to even price your shit. Right. So what we did was we were like, all right, well, we’d take 15% and fucking like fees anyway. Let’s take half of that, put that shit in a token, and then distribute it to everybody who like, from like the least exposure to the most. So the people who had most exposure
10:18didn’t get a lot of tokens. You’re already balling. Like, you don’t need it really. It’s really people who like, need the leg up to then get into the point where they’re competitive. So he did that. ICO crash happens 2017, 18. Nobody wants to touch crypto. Our investors So if you touch that shit, we’re taking all our money out, but it was one of the things that actually made us profitable, so I knew in the back of my mind, yo, crypto is really the catalyst for real, unique, insane growth, but a lot of people are afraid of it, table that, tokenomics is just really like the economics around how a token either generates
10:58value and how it’s being distributed amongst the community or the people that you want to distribute the token to. That means people can buy it, they can earn it, you can withhold some, people can like put money in and kind of like in an escrow and like the promise that like there might be more value coming later. It’s a whole different like a lot of ways in which you can kind of like distribute a token but tokenomics really just describes like the I guess ways you can do distribution all right tabling that 2018 learned about consensus did a hackathon 2019 that plus like me going on Instagram and asking for money paid my way to go to Japan for art residency that summer at that point that was really the turning point for me I think where I was like I don’t want to do my regular like
11:55Degular Ass, Design Job, I want to build things for myself and I’d always tried but like nothing really stuck so I felt like crypto had the right kind of stickiness for me to get into it and I was learning more about it as I was participating in hackathons and stuff like that so 2020 rolls around my homie shout out to LateFX or his name is Layton but you can find him LateFX on Twitter Dope-ass Spatial Designer and Industrial Designer He told me about, he was selling his Instagram filters as NFTs I’m like, nigga, what the fuck are NFTs? He’s like, bro, this shit crazy Shows me a Rarible link of his shit
12:3988 ETH bids I’m like, what the fuck? Yeah, I gotta get on this shit Gotta get on it Mentioned an NFT on Rarible That was my first place I ever did one so shout out to that crew, y’all legit, fuck with y’all, um, and then like at that point I had already done like some degen, coin shit, he got me on everything, like LateFX really just like put me on the DeFi shit, the DeFi summer, the Uniswap stuff, and LateFX was at the czar residency? Nah, nah, just, just a dude who just loves to experiment, like another aside, this is This is the guy when I was in college. This is when I knew to always listen to him. There
13:24was an opportunity where he was a part of Kanye to the blog. And when Yeezus came out and it had the Blink CD, he was doing art on the Blink CDs. And the shit went viral. He was like, bro, put your art on here. You’re going to get dumb exposure. I dubbed it because I was too busy doing other shit. Virgil hit him up. Ye hit him up. Nigga was working for Don to literally the next month, I mean it’s probably hyperbole, it’s probably a couple months after, but proximity, by doing a really ill-ass idea and striking the iron while it’s hot, and I was like, I’m taking that with me because I fucked up, I had an opportunity
14:04to do that, and he saw that I had the capacity to do that shit, but I dubbed it, so the next time he told me about the NFT shit, I was like, alright, okay, you know what you’re talking about, because the last time I had an opportunity to work with Virgil and I fucked it up, so So like I’m not messing about this stuff. You feel me? So like there are certain people you meet in your life that like have that kind of conviction and clarity. If they’re telling you, you want to follow that. And it’s not like you being like an aimless follower, but more so like they see that there’s an opportunity for you
14:38to take advantage of because they know you and know what you can do. So if they’re seeing momentum, they want you to hop on that train, right? And there’s nothing wrong with that. So, when I learned about that and did the NFT thing, I was like, I gotta pay it forward And I spent a lot of time on Clubhouse doing that So, like, I met folks like Black Dave, met folks like Ja, onboarded him to the space with Tasha You onboarded Ja to the space? Yeah, I bought his first NFT That’s cool So, what I used to do, 2020, was like, cause I had some bread off the DeFi shit
15:12I was like, I would onboard somebody and I’d be like, yo, I really fuck with your art The best way I can show you that this shit works is if you mint it and somebody buys it So I was like, well, I could buy it So I would just tell them, yo, what do you think this is worth? They’re like, I don’t know, I’m like, just put a number They’re like, okay, $300 I think that was like an ETH at the time Paid them one ETH They’re like, bro, why’d you do that? To show you it works They’re like, do you want your money back?
15:35No, keep it, the fuck? Like, now do it to somebody else Yeah And then shit blew up So, at that point, it was like, okay, I see that there’s validity here And my whole goal was to just, like, continue to experiment in the space and see what else is possible So I can tell somebody else that it’s possible And then whatever ideas they have, they end up proliferating that and making it happen So, I mean, I’ve been doing that shit for four years now And when did Black Hands, like, become, like, a part of your journey? Like, when did you start Black Hands? That was 2021, the summer
16:12And did you know before that you already wanted to get it again? No Were you already in gaming at like a No, so like, Bria could tell you, my girlfriend, she could tell you 2020, started a pandemic, I connected with my friends on Discord and we’re just streaming all the time She was not necessarily annoyed with me, but she was
16:33But with that, we were building a following We had people on Twitch like, yo, who did your overlays? Who did like your transitions? Who’s making your music? blah, blah, blah. And we’re like, yo, it’s on and else. So we were helping other communities like that were small, get their footing in Twitch by just like being a resource. And then at that point, like, I think summer of 2020, as a pandemic was getting real crazy. After Juneteenth, there was like this, there was this weird like tension that happened on Twitch where a lot of folks were being fucking racist and xenophobic. So a lot of folks that were like black, brown, whatever, were protesting and like stopped going on Twitch. So out of solidarity, we did the same thing. So we had to reassess like, hmm, when we have situations like this, how can we distribute value to people? Because a lot of people protested even though like streamings are livelihood. So that made me think about contextualizing what we did over on the streaming side to Web3. And I had already done Mintpun at that point.
17:40So, and like, I realized that like, okay, I’m already using, I already had a conduit that like, raised funds to support artists and pay for their gas fees, and then I saw how that ended up, ended like becoming massive goodwill for us in the space, where we had really good donations, and then we were proliferating and bringing it forward, so I’m like, maybe I could take that same type of model, or at least like the, the essence of it, and then bring it into gaming, and then that led us to like, thinking about DAOs, thinking about community ownership, shout out to C-Club, I was a part of that cohort as well, and all these kind of factors brought me to thinking about let’s do Blackhand as an e-sports organization that’s owned by everyone else.
18:30We Had Done A Crypto Cookout Which Was We Got 450 Or So People Mostly New To Crypto Largely Black And Brown Folks To Buy Two Crypto Punks We Raised About One And A Half Million Dollars At The Time Wow As Those Auctions Were Happening With The Zora Auction House Which Was An Offshoot Of The Auction Primitive We Built With Mint Fund Which Is Also Like A Precursor To Now’s We Those Auctions Were Happening I’m in a hospital with my dad. He literally passes away. Both auctions for the CryptoPunks go through and then two weeks later raise a million dollars for black hair. It was nuts.
19:18I honestly like at that point in time it was weird because it was like my best advocate he was in a coma for a whole month. I couldn’t even tell him what was happening. He goes, and then all this other stuff happens I’m like, damn, this has got to be some spiritual, some act, some divine act I can’t quantify it But I’m also emotionally in a weird place I’m both incredibly sad as shit and also elated It was weird
19:53But you worked through it, you powered through it And so I could say we’ve won championships World Tournaments, we’ve got massive exposure on the web 2 side, like a lot of gamers fuck with us, so now we’re just trying to figure out how we can convert more of the crypto native people to fuck with us now, but yeah bro, it’s been a weird, weird journey, but honestly grateful for everything, I wouldn’t change it, I wouldn’t know where to start if I could, so, you know, I just roll with it.
20:29I’m elated, really, like I said, to be able to sit here with you and get a bigger sense of your story. I think I’m excited for people to know your story, know who you are. You are a force of nature in this space. And I feel like you frequently don’t get your credit. And I think the organization that you’ve been building with Blackhand is also super impressive. I think this whole conversation around consumer crypto, you’ve already been a consumer crypto organization. You’ve already been helping people understand what crypto is by showing up in spaces that are culturally relevant, that are games, you know. I think like you maybe don’t get that recognition, but I see youtubers talking about you
20:59I see we’re doing documentaries about what you’re doing. Oh, like the blackhand documentaries are crazy Like how the production value 40 minutes 50 minutes. I’m like, oh shit Like we actually we doing something. Yeah, I mean get what you’re doing is closely relevant You know people want to document that and I think that’s that’s a sign that what you’re doing is important big facts You just gave me an idea. I got to hit them up and be like yo meant that shit Facts, I would definitely tell them do that. I hope they do. I mean they will that’s That’s what you’re saying. Yeah. And so, yeah, I’m super excited to be here with you today, to have my audience hear your
21:33story, have my parents, my friends are going to hear your story. Love it. Have my friends hear your story. Shout out to the parents. Yeah, shout out to the parents. My sister, my niece and nephew, everybody. Hell yeah. I’m excited for people to hear who you are. I appreciate, I’m sorry about the language for the parents. You can bleep that. Yeah. I probably won’t though, cause it’s real. Yeah. So, you know, the vibes are here, the vibes are here in Denver for sure. Facts. I was here with the Trailblazers and We Them Niggas was alive on this trip and shout out to FWB for the funding, shout out to the community for supporting this project, shout out to 40 Acres and Russ for really just creating this space for people to come together, I’m a huge fan proponent of what they’re doing over there and Proof of Vibes as well, this is a Proof of Vibes event, we’re in the back right now and so gotta say shout out to him and yeah, do you have anything else you want to say to the audience?
22:21As we’re wrapping up ETH Denver, you went to the Meow house, but what’s top of mind wrapping up ETH Denver? If you’re thinking about getting in the space, honestly, if you’re skittish about doing anything online, show up to an event. Pull up in person, because you’ll get the warmth that may be hard to translate online. Like, there are many of us that are, like, really warm online, too, but I think, um, actually, like, taking, having the courage to step out, go to an event, ask questions, just be yourself There’s too many of us that are incredibly eclectic in this space, like, just all over this place
23:04Like, you’re gonna find people who are just like you, and are interested in this shit, and will nerd out about this shit, and are happy to welcome you into it So like don’t shy away from it, if you have that curiosity, scratch that itch, pull up There’s many of us that will welcome you, like us included So I feel like that’s probably top of mind for me Don’t like think of these events as like oh let’s not do the main thing Because the main thing is bullshit, it’s all about the side stuff Yeah that’s true, but none of this would be possible if it wasn’t for people coming in anyway
23:39So, like, you have to, presence is more important than anything else If you’re like, yo, I don’t know how to get into crypto and I’m broke Like, then the online shit’s the best way, bro Like, I’m not a shiller But Zora has a very, like, easy way of minting without paying anything Just present your ideas Other people will find that shit and fund it and pay for it, right? So, there’s always an opportunity for you to get into this space no matter how small the touchpoint may be or how it may feel, you can get into it. Shoutout to you Sirsu. Shoutout to you too, bro.
24:19I really hope you all follow up. You go check out Blackhand, check out Stadium, check out Sirsu online. Tune in with We Them Media. I’m very excited for what the year has to hold for both of us. Big facts. They say we’re in a bull market. They say we’re approaching the Bitcoin. Hey, yo, actually, as a matter of fact, my last thing. As this shit is rising, accumulate as much as possible You do not want to be in a situation where you ain’t apply for grants You didn’t mint your shit, right? Like, get active, because all this is going to count
24:55Optimism just had a whole thing where they just paid out millions of dollars to people Because they just had activity on chain Yeah Just get active, be busy in this shit Accumulate as much as possible Don’t like Everybody’s got their own situation Some niggas gotta pay for families Some people are by themselves Some folks got massive debt Some people debt free You know what your ability for risk is And if you don’t know Crypto’s gonna let you find out real quick What your capacity for risk is So if you’re here And you know you got bills to pay And you got tokens you done claimed
25:36sell that shit right now. Don’t play around with it. Don’t be like, oh, I’m gonna speculate and think it’s gonna be, cause you’re gonna be mad when the shit dropped 50% and now you can’t pay your bills. Like, real life is way more important than fun money. But get as much of it as possible first and then take care of yourself. Please. Especially that shit running up. Don’t be, don’t be, yo, make it back. That’s the cool thing about crypto. It always comes back to you. It’s an airdrop one day. It’s a free mint the next It’s you showing up, it’s winning a raffle, it’s you building your own idea, getting funded
26:14It’s gonna come back to you, but if you got responsibilities, do not fuck around Cause this shit will really make you leave I know too many people that were up one day, 20, 30, 40, 50, 100,000 dollars Was like, my whole life could change I’m like, sell, change your life They’re like, no, it’s gonna go higher, and it didn’t Now they all out, fucked up Afraid to go back into space But now it’s up again I’m pretty sure I’m going to hear from them tomorrow I’ll be like, oh, I want to get back in What do I do? Don’t be like that Handle your business
26:51If anything, that is the most important thing Everything else is bullshit Handle your fucking business You want to stay So, keep them bills paid Booyah, stay responsible Take care of your responsibilities And make sure that you’re feeling fulfilled And stay safe And this is the advice, but not financial advice, from We Them Media today Right, right, well we ain’t show no tokens That’s a fact You can tell somebody to handle your business, that’s definitely financial advice Because we’re not shilling shit, but handle your business And if you get an accountant, tax accountant, CPA, all that shit, handle your shit Period You don’t want Gary Gensler on your ass, put some bullshit
27:40You don’t want the IRS talking about, hey, you ain’t pay your taxes in like four years Because now you’re going to have to pay a whole lot more That ETH bag you were saving It’s gone Plus everything else You don’t want that Niggas ain’t got no assets to begin with We ain’t got houses yet We ain’t got no equity to leverage So please, get your life together In fact, I didn’t drive my own car So we’re out here I’m saying I rent too, shit What’s it called This has been a wonderful opportunity to be in conversation with you As I said, you were a part of my journey into this space
28:19Uncle Bobby says Uncle Bobby, shouts to Mark And the whole team of Uncle Bobby’s But it’s incredible to go from there to here And to hear your whole story once again And hear additions to it I’m excited, like I said, for my community to get to know you I’m excited for our community to get to interact more with time And I’m excited to work together to bring Philadelphia on chain So I’m really excited to be here and I’m excited for our journeys to continue to blossom and intertwine further. That part, that part. Thank you again for co-signing the proposal with me coming to Denver. Of course, of course.
28:51And thank you for doing this interview. And thank you all for paying attention, tuning in. You can let people know where they can check out everything you’re working on. SirSoo on Twitter, Telegram, Farcaster, the whole nine. Follow me there. You can also go BlackHannaAllSocials. That’s where I’m at. Well, yeah, you know where we’re at. We’re at We Them Media, you guys say booyah as well, three, two, one, booyah, all right, peace, love everybody, hope to see you at ETH Denver next year and hope to see you online sooner, yes sir, peace and blessings.
