An episode of We Them, the podcast Maceo started in college, where We Them Media began. It was published as audio only. This page carries its full transcript so the words can be read, searched and quoted. It is not a written piece. Listen to it where it was published.
Transcribed from the original audio. Speakers are told apart by the model, and a name stands where the tape says who is speaking. Search every transcript
These are the speakers’ own words. We have not checked their claims.
0:01Jack Li: What’s popping?
0:01Maceo: What’s popping? Hello.
0:03Jack Li: We back in the building.
0:04Maceo: Back in the building. Let’s go. Let’s go.
0:07Jack Li: Yeah.
0:08Maceo: Welcome to the We Them Niggas podcast, Jack. I’m excited to have you here with us.
0:12Jack Li: What’s good? What’s popping? What’s going on? We’re back in the building.
0:17Maceo: Back in the building.
0:18Jack Li: Yeah.
0:19Maceo: The 407 residence, the apartment I’m actually about to move out of. It feels really weird to think that we’re about to graduate. It feels like
0:26Jack Li: very surreal. Yeah.
0:27Maceo: Like, it is kind of crazy.
0:29Jack Li: Time passed really fast. All right, go ahead.
0:34Maceo: Uh, Jack, what -- your first name, like, your American first name is Jack, no? You have another first name? Yeah?
0:41Jack Li: Yeah, I have.
0:42Maceo: What’s your first name?
0:43Jack Li: It’s Junhwan.
0:44Maceo: Junhwan?
0:46Jack Li: Yeah, stuff like that. Like, nobody can really say that right, so that’s why I named myself Like the easiest name possible. Yeah, because nobody’s gonna remember a name, right? It’s complicated.
1:01Maceo: Yeah, but now I have it recorded so I can practice.
1:03Jack Li: All right.
1:04Maceo: I like that. What does it mean? Something?
1:07Jack Li: Uh, it means something, but it’s ridiculous. You won’t believe it.
1:14Maceo: What does it mean?
1:16Jack Li: All right, so my name is made up By 2 letters, right? Jin and Huan. Jin means shake, Huan means universe.
1:25Maceo: Universe shaker. Like, you are the universe shaking?
1:29Jack Li: Yeah, like I shock -- like I shock the universe.
1:31Maceo: It’s like an earthquake.
1:32Jack Li: Yeah, exactly.
1:34Maceo: Have fun with that.
1:35Jack Li: Like I’m meant to do like great things, you know, so I gotta shock the universe.
1:39Maceo: I think you’re already shocking the universe.
1:42Jack Li: No, I’m not. Not yet.
1:44Maceo: You’re not -- you’re not -- maybe not in peak form yet. Maybe not to the highest level, but I’m just saying, I see it.
1:49Jack Li: All right.
1:49Maceo: I see it. Um, so you said you chose Jack because it was simple?
1:53Jack Li: Yeah.
1:54Maceo: What’s the process like choosing the name?
1:57Jack Li: No thought process.
1:59Maceo: No, I mean --
2:00Jack Li: I don’t -- I just want a name that like people can easily remember.
2:04Maceo: That makes sense.
2:05Jack Li: Yeah.
2:06Maceo: Yeah.
2:07Jack Li: Because even Chinese have like trouble remembering my name.
2:10Maceo: Really?
2:11Jack Li: Yeah.
2:11Maceo: Is that uncommon?
2:12Jack Li: Like my father, my birth father, he’s Korean.
2:16Maceo: Oh, I didn’t know that.
2:17Jack Li: Yeah, my mother is Chinese, so I was born in China. And so they basically translate some like Korean letters into Chinese. So that’s why that name even sounds foreign in Chinese, because it was like a Korean translated letter.
2:34Maceo: Yeah.
2:35Jack Li: Yeah.
2:35Maceo: So that’s kind of cool. What letters are like -- so you said it means like earth, like universe shaker.
2:43Jack Li: Yeah.
2:43Maceo: So it’s like universe in Korean, or like, is it like, is it like one of the words?
2:48Jack Li: It means something different in Korean.
2:49Maceo: Oh, what does it mean in Korean?
2:50Jack Li: Uh, I don’t know.
2:52Maceo: Oh, that’s cool though. I think that’s cool.
2:54Jack Li: Yeah.
2:55Maceo: I didn’t know that. I didn’t know you were half Korean.
2:57Jack Li: Yeah, but I mean, it’s pretty just like the country is just next to us. So
3:05Maceo: yeah, but it’s still like a relationship to a whole new country. Yeah,
3:08Jack Li: exactly.
3:08Maceo: I think that’s interesting. Like, yeah. And so here you’re at FNM. You’re from -- what city are you from?
3:15Jack Li: Dalian.
3:16Maceo: Dalian
3:17Jack Li: is a small coastal city, like 2 hours flight from Beijing.
3:22Maceo: Yeah. And like, like, you don’t live there anymore? Your family -- your parents moved, right? Where you live now?
3:28Jack Li: My parents moved Here in LA 2 years ago.
3:33Maceo: When you look back at Dalian, like, what do you think you miss -- or going -- like, do you miss most, I guess, rather?
3:39Jack Li: Probably just people I met. Yeah. Places I’ve been. Probably the food the most, I guess. Yeah, we’re pretty famous for like seafood stuff.
3:53Maceo: That’s pretty cool. I fuck with seafood. I like shrimp and scallops.
3:56Jack Li: Like shrimps, fishes, like The stuff over there are extremely cheap.
4:01Maceo: Oh yeah?
4:02Jack Li: Yeah, the seafoods are so cheap.
4:04Maceo: Is it because it’s like right there in the --
4:05Jack Li: You know, like the oysters, right? Oysters, like, it’s probably like you’re gonna spend like $20, like, over like just a set of it. In China, it’s like you can get 2 of these by spending $1. You got 2 of oyster. You got 2 oysters.
4:21Maceo: That’s hella cheap. That’s because it’s right there on the water. There’s so much.
4:24Jack Li: Yeah.
4:25Maceo: That makes sense.
4:26Jack Li: I can, I can go physically. I can just collect it.
4:29Maceo: Oh, I see. It’s that easy?
4:30Jack Li: Yeah, I can collect it myself. Just people do that? Yeah, I used to do it because I, I remember the first place I lived. I, I lived just right next to an ocean. I lived right next to a bay, to a beach. Yeah, I take like 20 minutes of walk. I walk to the beach and collect some oyster. Yeah.
4:50Maceo: Catch the sunsets.
4:52Jack Li: Yeah, sunsets.
4:54Maceo: Definitely. They’re probably lit. Would you go like do that with people, other people too?
4:59Jack Li: I used to go with my uncle.
5:01Maceo: Oh yeah?
5:02Jack Li: Yeah, when I was, when I was little, when I was 8.
5:04Maceo: What’s your uncle’s name?
5:06Jack Li: My uncle, uh, my uncle’s name is Kai.
5:12Maceo: Kai?
5:12Jack Li: Yeah, Kai.
5:13Maceo: I fuck with that.
5:15Jack Li: Yeah.
5:16Maceo: I like the name. Uh, and now you’re going to, like, after graduation, be in LA, and you’re going to Brown. Congrats.
5:23Jack Li: Thank you.
5:24Maceo: Yeah.
5:26Jack Li: May -- made something out of here.
5:29Maceo: What’d you say?
5:30Jack Li: Make a thing out of here.
5:32Maceo: Yeah, you’re getting out of here for sure. Are you excited to be at Brown?
5:36Jack Li: Um, not really. I’m not sure, like I remember like my first day in here, I was pretty excited.
5:46Maceo: Yeah,
5:46Jack Li: because I’m going to university, but now it’s like I grew older. Yeah, I don’t think that’s -- that thing really matters anymore. Yeah, but I’m glad to be in a different place, you know, meet different people.
6:01Maceo: Yeah.
6:01Jack Li: Yeah, learn new things.
6:03Maceo: Life goes on.
6:04Jack Li: Yeah,
6:06Maceo: that’s a fact. I hear it. Do you have like -- how do you look back at being at F&M? You’re a senior graduating, you’ve been here 4 years.
6:14Jack Li: Shit.
6:15Maceo: What’s your major? Tell them your major.
6:17Jack Li: Biology.
6:18Maceo: Why did you choose that?
6:20Jack Li: Like, I’ve always been like a half art, half science guy, you know? Like, biology is not like a really scientific science, really. Like, you don’t have to do math in biology. I suck at math. Yeah, like at the same time you need to consider like you’re gonna learn something and you can make a living out of it. Yeah, most of people don’t make a living out of music, you know? Yeah, you need to have like a second choice, you know?
6:51Maceo: Yeah.
6:52Jack Li: Yeah, you need to feed yourself. Yeah.
6:55Maceo: So is that -- that’s why you chose biology instead of music?
6:58Jack Li: Hmm?
6:59Maceo: Is that why you didn’t study music here?
7:01Jack Li: Yeah.
7:01Maceo: You thought about studying music here?
7:03Jack Li: I thought about it, like, because -- but I checked the curriculum. There’s no, like, modern music subject in there, but my focus is more like hip-hop, R&B, trap soul type of stuff. That’s like more of my stuff, like, but like here, like, music major at F&M is more like classical.
7:24Maceo: Classical.
7:24Jack Li: Yeah, classical jazz.
7:26Maceo: Yeah.
7:27Jack Li: So I fuck with jazz.
7:28Maceo: You have Professor Alajaji?
7:29Jack Li: No.
7:31Maceo: She’s a really cool music professor I met. At least she teaches about music, musicology. I think it’s like ethnomusicology or something like that. So when did you start making music? And you go by the name Moody Montage, right?
7:47Jack Li: Moody Montage, yeah, that’s my new artist name. I fuck with the name. Yeah, I started making music a long time ago. I used to be like a guitar player.
7:59Maceo: I didn’t know that.
8:00Jack Li: I play guitar. Yeah, I play guitar. I used to do like all like the remix of songs by like just playing guitar and sing along it. That was the way I make music. Yeah, but I have always been listening to hip-hop, and at the age of 18, I started making hip-hop music. Yeah, so I have been making --
8:22Maceo: How’d you get into hip-hop? Who’d you start with?
8:23Jack Li: Just me and a really close friend. Yeah, like we started making -- we started like writing bars, finding beats. Yeah, recording songs. That’s what we did. Yeah, but he’s -- now he’s not making music anymore. Life goes on. Like, yeah. He’s on his job right now, so.
8:48Maceo: Oh, what does he do?
8:49Jack Li: He’s, uh, he studied, uh, um, public relations. Yeah, he’s studying like, he’s studying a new language right now.
8:59Maceo: Oh, that’s cool.
8:59Jack Li: Yeah.
9:00Maceo: What language?
9:01Jack Li: Italian.
9:02Maceo: Oh yeah?
9:02Jack Li: Yeah, Italian. I was Italian. I was thinking French, Italian, which one? Yeah, I was Italian.
9:07Maceo: So he’s teaching him, he’s learning that right now?
9:09Jack Li: He’s learning it right now. He’s from -- yeah, he’s planning to start working in Italy. Fascinating. Yeah.
9:15Maceo: It’s crazy to me to even think that people like just like think like, I’m gonna go learn this language and do it and then go places.
9:21Jack Li: Yeah, he’s a person who’s really dedicated on what he’s doing. Yeah, I respect that a lot. Yeah, I can’t do it. I can’t study another language.
9:33Maceo: Why do you say that?
9:34Jack Li: I feel like anybody could. Yeah, I don’t know. I feel like studying English is really hard.
9:37Maceo: Yeah, it takes time. It’s like, it’s a lot of details, a lot of memorization.
9:42Jack Li: environment, you know, where like people like actually speak that language.
9:45Maceo: Yeah.
9:46Jack Li: That definitely helps.
9:47Maceo: Yeah, I think, I think the internet makes it easier to find content though as well where people are talking about it. You can watch shows, you watch movies, you can watch like YouTube content.
9:55Jack Li: Yeah.
9:55Maceo: I feel like there’s videos, movies all over the place.
9:57Jack Li: I picked up my English from like YouTube, watching YouTube videos.
10:00Maceo: Yeah?
10:01Jack Li: Yeah.
10:02Maceo: Do you have any YouTubers you want to shout out?
10:04Jack Li: Um, I’m not gonna say this, but I really gotta Shout out like, uh, Logan Paul.
10:11Maceo: Hey, shout out Logan Paul.
10:13Jack Li: Dude, I used to watch his video. That was just him being -- he’s just being hilarious.
10:22Maceo: Um, he’s amusing, I’d agree.
10:23Jack Li: I also, um, watch this dude called Kodaka. You should check out his music.
10:28Maceo: Kodaka?
10:28Jack Li: Kodaka.
10:29Maceo: I’ve heard of that. Yeah,
10:30Jack Li: yeah.
10:31Maceo: What kind of music is it?
10:31Jack Li: Hip-hop music, but he’s It’s pretty -- he’s really unique. His music style is pretty unique. It is like you put -- it is like a combination of Logic, Tyler, the Creator, Frank Ocean, and Kanye West. Like, you can check out his music. Quadeca.
10:54Maceo: K-O-D-E-K-A?
10:56Jack Li: No, Q-U-A-D-E-C-A. C-A.
11:00Maceo: Okay, okay. Q-U-A? Mm-hmm.
11:04Jack Li: D-C-A.
11:07Maceo: I’ll find it. What song?
11:09Jack Li: Um, just play his latest album.
11:12Maceo: From Me to You?
11:14Jack Li: Yeah, just any song.
11:18Maceo: This is the intro to Quadeca’s From Me to You. No, I didn’t. I will -- no, now it’s Alone Together by Quadeca because I switched the song. I didn’t mean to do that.
11:40Jack Li: He produced all of it, all of these by himself.
11:46Maceo: That’s cool. It’s a whole experience.
12:34Jack Li: He haven’t started yet. Just wait. Good
13:03C: production.
13:07Maceo: I like these beats. I like this beat.
13:33C: Together alone.
13:43Maceo: It kind of reminds me of The Weeknd a little bit too.
13:47Jack Li: Yeah.
14:36C: I like this song.
14:43Jack Li: It’s so good, bro.
14:46Maceo: I fuck with this.
15:06C: Forever alone. I guess we’re alone together. Yeah.
15:26Jack Li: Yeah, he’s, uh, he used to be this kid, um, he used to make like impression videos about rappers. He says this is like 16 different styles of rap. He’s like making impression of like famous rappers.
15:39Maceo: Yeah.
15:40Jack Li: That’s what he did, um, when he was a YouTuber and he’s transitioned to this crazy musician.
15:47Maceo: It is crazy.
15:49Jack Li: It is.
15:50Maceo: He’s like very versatile even just in that song.
15:52Jack Li: Yeah.
15:52Maceo: And the fact that he produced it too, I think honestly that’s like -- I don’t know, you, you produce music as well. I think it’s like cool to see artists like -- and I mean, I was just gonna say, I think it’s cool. Like when I -- like I got -- I gained a lot of respect for Travis Scott. I was gonna say, I learned that he produces his own music. Like, I think it’s a completely different thing to be entirely composing a piece of music, um, than, than to be trying to rap just over something. I think it’s a completely different like skill set. It’s a larger skill set.
16:19Jack Li: He’s in a different level, you know?
16:22Maceo: Yeah, I mean, I agree.
16:23Jack Li: He’s not ordinary. He’s, he’s on the top.
16:25Maceo: I hear it. I like that a lot.
16:28Jack Li: Like,
16:29Maceo: yeah, like, yeah, and it’s interesting. I haven’t listened to a whole lot of, like, aside from, like, New York drill music, I haven’t really listened to a lot of new music actively. Yeah, that’s why I like that you showed me your friend’s song earlier today. Yeah. Kenzie?
16:42Jack Li: Kenzie.
16:43Maceo: Kenzie, shout out Kenzie. Yeah.
16:45Jack Li: Kenzie Neal.
16:46Maceo: You said you’ve been making music since, since you were 18.
16:50Jack Li: Mm-hmm.
16:51Maceo: And your friends make music. Then do you have other friends in Dalian that you make music with?
16:55Jack Li: I just met a couple of my -- a couple of friends like Kenzie, I think last summer. Yeah, I didn’t know a lot of people who make music back then.
17:05Maceo: How’d you meet them?
17:11Jack Li: Yeah, he was a friend of another friend of mine. Like, I met the other friend of mine like on the internet, through internet. Like, I post my song, he’s like, he fuck with it, do you want to collab? Sure, yeah. Like, I check out his stuff, you know, that’s how we met. Like, we met through internet. And he, like, Kenzie, is a friend of this another friend of mine, and we went to club together once and we just became close.
17:38Maceo: Yeah.
17:39Jack Li: Yeah.
17:39Maceo: That makes sense. I fuck with that. So you guys had a mutual friend? Yeah. How’s the club scene in Dalian? That’s a question.
17:49Jack Li: It’s pretty versatile. Yeah, you got different, you know, club for drink, club for like dancing, EDM stuff. Yeah, a lot of different clubs over there.
18:05Maceo: Like, I don’t know, how’s party scene though? Like DJs, like --
18:08Jack Li: Yeah, I would say it’s like definitely like different from like party scene here, but it’s just like a whole -- like it’s another like party culture. Yeah, we have a party culture over there, but it’s like different from like party culture from here.
18:30Maceo: I hear what you’re saying.
18:31Jack Li: Yeah, yeah, I love this setting, how you have a microphone in front of you, like how I have mine.
18:40Maceo: Mhm.
18:40Jack Li: Yeah.
18:41Maceo: It’s very professional, right?
18:43Jack Li: Yeah, it’s pretty professional. It reminds me, um, the confession like Lil Pump had with J. Cole.
18:50Maceo: Uh-huh.
18:51Jack Li: Yeah, remember that?
18:53Maceo: Mhm. You’re J. Cole, I’m Lil
18:54Jack Li: Pump. No, I’m Lil Pump. Look at my hair.
18:58Maceo: No, that’s fair. Gucci Gang, Gucci Gang, Gucci Gang.
19:01Jack Li: Ooh, let’s get it!
19:04Maceo: You remember when, uh, what’s his name, Jake -- Jake Bell came here and performed a Gucci Gang cover?
19:12Jack Li: No.
19:13Maceo: Spring Arts Freshman Year.
19:15Jack Li: Oh, I forgot.
19:17Maceo: Drake Bell, he came here. You know Drake Bell is?
19:20Jack Li: No.
19:20Maceo: You know the show Drake and Josh?
19:21Jack Li: Drake and Josh?
19:24Maceo: You heard of that show?
19:25Jack Li: No.
19:25Maceo: The show that when we were probably like, like maybe middle school, like late elementary school, middle school, it used to come on the channel Nickelodeon. And this guy from the show came here and performed as a musician, and he sang a cover of Gucci Gang in the ASFC. Wow. I agree.
19:44Jack Li: Gucci Gang, Gucci Gang. That was, yeah, that was 2018. That song haven’t -- yeah, we were still listening to that song like back in 2018, but about how, like, like how fast, like, time passed. We, we don’t listen to that song anymore, right?
20:00Maceo: I don’t listen to that song.
20:02Jack Li: You still listen to Lil Pump songs?
20:04Maceo: No, not at all.
20:04Jack Li: Yeah, exactly. I did though. Back in 2018, we were still listening to that song.
20:08Maceo: I’m off of Molly. I’m off of Beam. He had a couple, he had a couple songs. D-Rose.
20:14Jack Li: Mm-hmm. D-Rose, D-Rose, D-Rose.
20:16Maceo: And then after that, when you were in college, he did the one with Kanye. Oh, I’m Such a -- You’re Such a Fucking Hoe.
20:22Jack Li: I’m such a fucking hoe, I love it. Yeah, I love that song. I fuck with that song.
20:27Maceo: Right?
20:28Jack Li: Yeah, that’s probably his best song.
20:30Maceo: I don’t know.
20:32Jack Li: Yeah, I thought -- I think he’s -- he stopped making music right now. Yeah, I haven’t seen him drop any albums or anything. Yeah.
20:42Maceo: Who are your top 5 musician influences?
20:46Jack Li: Top 5? Eminem.
20:50Maceo: Eminem?
20:51Jack Li: Yeah, XXXTentacion.
20:54Maceo: Well, all right, can you also tell us about like how you got into them? Like how did you get into Eminem?
20:58Jack Li: Oh, I was just listening to Eminem like since I was a kid. That was like the basic -- my basic impression about rap music, you know, because I listened to him first.
21:10Maceo: Well, how do you find him? How do you first hear about him?
21:13Jack Li: I forgot, really. Like, I really forgot.
21:16Maceo: Like, just --
21:17Jack Li: A while. Yeah.
21:18Maceo: I feel like I remember in like middle school, probably like 7th grade is when I like first heard him.
21:22Jack Li: Probably like 8 Mile, probably.
21:24Maceo: The movie?
21:25Jack Li: Yeah, the movie, I guess. Yeah, that’s, that’s a really popular movie.
21:29Maceo: Yeah, the movie, definitely. That’s true. I think that like that, that movie really gave him up like a story. That’s interesting. I never thought about that. You think you’ll ever make a movie about yourself?
21:41Jack Li: A movie about myself? Nah, I’m not gonna. That’s, that’s arrogant. You
21:48Maceo: think so?
21:49Jack Li: Yeah, I think that’s arrogant.
21:50Maceo: I think that’s cool. People get to learn like your story. Nah. And like --
21:56Jack Li: I will -- I prefer present the story, like my stories through music. Yeah, I
22:03Maceo: don’t know. I fuck with it. I think I would do it, honestly. I don’t know how, but I think it’d be good for branding. Like you’re saying, you encounter Eminem through a movie about him. I think like that’s cool.
22:18Jack Li: Yeah, but you’re, you’re already, um, you won like a couple of Grammys, you know, you definitely can make a movie about yourself. Yeah,
22:26Maceo: yeah, I feel like I would do like a documentary, like Kanye did his documentary.
22:30Jack Li: Yeah, I fuck with that. Um, yeah, talk about like my top, top 5 influences. There’s Kanye. There’s definitely Kanye.
22:38Maceo: Is it X too, right?
22:40Jack Li: Yeah, X.
22:40Maceo: How do you get into X?
22:41Jack Li: Probably high school, um, junior year, senior year high school. He was popping back then.
22:47Maceo: What song you first hear? I heard Look at Me, I think, first.
22:50Jack Li: Uh, Look at Me. Yeah, definitely was Look at Me. He has this mixtape called Revenge mixtape. Yeah, that was like my top 1 mixtape ever. There is a song called Look at the Stars.
23:09Maceo: On the mixtape?
23:11Jack Li: Yeah. Where did you go? Out, out there. I can’t see you. Yeah.
23:17Maceo: I’m gonna play it.
23:19Jack Li: Revenge, that mixtape.
23:25Maceo: Looking -- staring at the sky?
23:26Jack Li: Yeah, staring at the sky, probably.
23:28Maceo: No, no, Looking for a Star.
23:30Jack Li: Yeah, that’s the song.
23:31Maceo: I fuck with it. You like that song a lot when you first heard it?
23:35Jack Li: Yeah.
23:36Maceo: And who showed it to you? You just found it on the internet?
23:39Jack Li: I just found it by myself.
23:40Maceo: That’s pretty tough. I know, that’s kind of crazy that you can find like a song like that that becomes like your favorite mixtape ever. Like, just perusing the internet.
23:54Jack Li: True. Yeah, I found this mixtape like way back then before like X was even like really popular. I feel like he became -- really became popular after his death. Not before his death, after his death. Yeah.
24:10Maceo: I think you’re definitely not wrong. I knew who he was before he died. Like, I was like watching him. Like, I watched his interviews when he came out of jail. I was like watching the politics around him and his, like, his girls. It’s interesting. I feel like that’s really what the politics I paid attention to for a long time were like. And in college, I haven’t really paid too much attention.
24:28Jack Li: He became like really relevant after he dropped his like second album, like the question mark album.
24:37Maceo: Like Sad?
24:38Jack Li: Yeah, Sad, question mark album.
24:40Maceo: Moonlight?
24:41Jack Li: Yeah.
24:45Maceo: All right, that was, that was kind
24:46Jack Li: of nice.
24:49Maceo: I wonder, I don’t really, I don’t know who was producing a lot of his stuff because I think like, I think those sounds were kind of crazy.
24:54Jack Li: I gave her everything, she took my heart and left me lonely. Yeah,
25:01Maceo: insane, bro. Along with X. He’s
25:07Jack Li: really influential.
25:08Maceo: How do you say so?
25:10Jack Li: I don’t know, Key is probably the most versatile rapper like back then. I feel like besides him, it’s like Drake and him, like the 2 most versatile rappers. Yeah, you agree, right?
25:24Maceo: Yeah, I mean, I would say so. Like 2016, I think like I liked A Boogie when he raps, like, and I would say in terms of subject matter, I would say like He was also more emo. Like, I think he was more like, like more --
25:41Jack Li: He’s like R&B.
25:43Maceo: Open-ended.
25:44Jack Li: Yeah.
25:44Maceo: I feel like a lot of melodic rap music that maybe is singing and has like some more R&B like aesthetics, it’s still just about like relationships and about like sex and like flaunting things. But I felt he had like a broader scope of substance, like dramatically so. In that regard, I would definitely say like, like very comparable to Drake in terms of versatility. But I think even he was even going further than Drake in terms of subject matter as well.
26:07Jack Li: Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I feel like a lot of rappers, they have like a variety of subject matter like before they became popular, and the subject matters they talked about after they became famous is like become like singular.
26:32Maceo: Yeah.
26:32Jack Li: Yeah, talking about fame, how this fame like brings you like negative effects, you know?
26:39Maceo: Yeah.
26:39Jack Li: Yeah, just think about like Kanye when he dropped his first 3 albums, I guess. Yeah, he talked a lot, a lot of a huge scope of subject matter. It’s about, um, really, really is about like a kid coming from like Middle-class family, you know.
26:58Maceo: Kanye, you mean, right?
26:59Jack Li: Kanye, old Kanye. Yeah.
27:02Maceo: Did you watch his documentary, you said, right?
27:04Jack Li: Yeah, like you compare College Dropout to 808 Heartbreak. Yeah, you see like a lot of like huge difference in his music style.
27:17Maceo: Mm-hmm. You’d say he’s a big influence on you as well? You’d say Kanye’s a big influence on you as well?
27:23Jack Li: Yeah, definitely.
27:25Maceo: How’d you first start listening to him?
27:27Jack Li: Uh, yeah, he’s a rapper I listened to when I was a kid. I think -- what was the song? Like, I listened --
27:39Maceo: The first Kanye song I ever heard was Stronger.
27:42Jack Li: Yeah, Stronger and the other one. It’s called Traffic Light, or I can’t remember the name of the song. Yes, in Graduation, uh, Flashing Lights. Flashing Lights. Yeah, that’s my first Kanye song.
28:00Maceo: Oh yeah, first Kanye song. Flashing Lights. I like that a lot. I like, like, like the, like the, like the, like the thumping. It’s consistent. And I don’t know, it was kind of like -- it kind of reminded me of like the looped video images I see sometimes with lo-fi. It was kind of relaxing.
28:24Jack Li: Yeah,
28:25Maceo: yeah. I don’t know, it was kind of like elegant. Like I could take ballet to that. Like, mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s what I thought. Why do you like that song so much?
28:39Jack Li: I just, I just feel like really related to that song, you know? Like it creates like an image in your head.
28:47Maceo: I agree.
28:48Jack Li: Yeah, the streetlight.
28:50Maceo: It’s a metaphor kind of.
28:52Jack Li: Like this.
28:52Maceo: Yeah, I think it’s a metaphor.
28:55Jack Li: Yeah, metaphorical. Like I remember like the -- yeah, there was a time I was just listening to a song when I just just left the Skull’s house and walked -- I walked back to Crow. Yeah, I was listening to the song and I just walking through like all the streetlights, you know?
29:16Maceo: Yeah. That sounds like quite the vibe, I’m not gonna
29:22Jack Li: lie. Yeah, I was high as fuck, man.
29:24Maceo: I believe it. I believe it, dude. And you’re like fucking bumping this music, which is immersive as fuck. That’s quite the vibe, quite the vibe, man. How did you first hear this song?
29:38Jack Li: Hmm?
29:40Maceo: How’d you first hear this song? You’re just looking?
29:42Jack Li: Yeah, I was just looking.
29:43Maceo: So when did you first start like going in like discovery mode with music? Like, how did you -- like, when -- like, when -- at what point in your life did you just start like just looking on the internet for songs?
29:51Jack Li: Oh shit, I was looking for songs all the time. Like, all the time. There’s no kidding. I was Yeah, I feel like looking for songs was a thing like ever since I was a kid, you know? Yeah, just listening to songs, like I asked people around me like, who likes singing that song, you know? Yeah, I’ll just listen to him on internet. Yeah, I listen to like other songs of his, you know?
30:17Maceo: Yeah.
30:17Jack Li: Yeah.
30:19Maceo: Are there any other rappers you’d say are like big influences on you still outside Kanye? So that’s what we covered so far. Kanye, XXXTentacion, and, uh,
30:30Jack Li: Eminem.
30:31Maceo: Yeah, and Eminem.
30:32Jack Li: Uh, shit, who else? Yeah, those are probably my like top 3 influence. Yeah, I don’t really have a top 5 influence. I definitely, uh, what about like my personal music style? Music style was definitely influenced by, um, Drake. Um, Tyler, the Creator. Um, uh, even 6Lack.
30:59Maceo: Yeah?
31:00Jack Li: Yeah, I fuck with 6Lack.
31:02Maceo: How’d you get into 6Lack? Yeah,
31:06Jack Li: see, I know him over a song, over, uh, the song he made with like J. Cole. Yeah, like his first album back in 2018, I guess. I was listening to this album while I was like during my freshman year, like my spring term of freshman year. Yeah.
31:25Maceo: I think I -- yeah, I think I know what song you’re talking about. I don’t know the name of it.
31:29Jack Li: The Pretty Little Things?
31:30Maceo: Mm-hmm.
31:31Jack Li: Yeah, probably that song.
31:33Maceo: Yeah, it was like back when I first heard of 6Lack. Is he not Black? Is it 6Lack?
31:38Jack Li: 6Lack, I think he’s Black, right? Yeah, he’s Black.
31:44Maceo: The name is Black? Or, you know, you don’t know?
31:45Jack Li: No, I mean, like, are you asking me if 6lack is Black?
31:50Maceo: No, if he goes -- like, if it’s supposed to be Black but spelled with a 6.
31:55Jack Li: What do you mean?
31:57Maceo: I don’t know if he’s like trying to spell his name as Black with a 6.
32:00Jack Li: Oh, 6lack. Oh, I don’t know. Slack, probably.
32:06Maceo: He said slack. You’re funny.
32:11Jack Li: Slack. I’m not -- why do you think I’m funny?
32:13Maceo: Because like, sick slack, you’re just like, I’ll just make it a word.
32:17Jack Li: Slack. Yeah, it’s Pretty Little -- ah, Pretty Little Fears. That’s the song’s name.
32:25Maceo: Yeah.
32:26Jack Li: Yeah.
32:27Maceo: And now that you’re making music, you also produce music. What’s that like? How has like the process from Like learning to make music? You said you used to play an instrument?
32:39Jack Li: Yeah, I used to play an instrument.
32:41Maceo: What instrument?
32:43Jack Li: Guitar, a little bit piano. Yeah, probably forgot them all. Yeah, mostly guitar.
32:50Maceo: Like acoustic?
32:52Jack Li: Acoustic and fingerstyle.
32:55Maceo: You had what?
32:56Jack Li: Like fingerstyle.
32:58Maceo: Oh, without a pick, you’re saying?
33:00Jack Li: Yeah.
33:00Maceo: I hear. What songs? Like, what songs? Did you take lessons?
33:04Jack Li: I took lessons. I took lessons like in the beginning. Like, after I took a few lessons, I started learning from YouTube. Yeah, just look at how like different -- like, look at how people play guitar and just try by myself. Yeah. I used to play a lot of like anime songs.
33:25Maceo: Oh yeah?
33:27Jack Li: Yeah.
33:27Maceo: Like what anime?
33:29Jack Li: Tokyo Ghoul. I play -- I used to fingerspell like this, the OP song called Unravel.
33:37Maceo: Is it opening? Yeah. I used to like the opening to like Fullmetal Alchemist. Those are like my favorite openings, I’d probably say. Yeah, and then something -- I like the 3rd Attack on Titan opening.
33:54Jack Li: Attack on Titan.
33:56Maceo: I like that, they had a really good opening. It’s like, Sasageyo, Sasageyo. I don’t know if you watched it.
34:05Jack Li: Yeah, yeah, that shit was tough.
34:08Maceo: Yeah, I like that though, you’re playing some good openings. I fuck with that. Why do you -- when’s the last time you were really playing guitar? Like, when was that?
34:17Jack Li: Shit, um, that was probably 2 years ago. I haven’t played like -- because I --
34:22Maceo: Oh, it’s not that long ago at all.
34:24Jack Li: Yeah, 2 years ago. Yeah, if you give me a guitar, I can still play. Like, if --
34:28Maceo: Oh yeah?
34:29Jack Li: You have a guitar? Yeah.
34:54C: Yeah, stuff like that.
34:55Maceo: Oh yeah. So you know some chords?
35:16C: Yeah, I know some chords. Oh, I can’t remember. You gave me like some chords.
35:21Maceo: I don’t know any chords. I can’t tell you anything. So that’s all right, we can sit it back down.
35:27Jack Li: You were in a band? Yeah. Oh
35:29Maceo: yeah? So how was that? How long were you in a band? When were you in a band?
35:32Jack Li: High school talent show.
35:34Maceo: Were there some other people?
35:35Jack Li: Yeah, there were other people. Yeah, I was the guitar player. I sing. That’s what I do. I used to be in the chorus.
35:45Maceo: Oh yeah?
35:46Jack Li: Yeah, I was, uh --
35:47Maceo: You’re a good singer.
35:49Jack Li: I was a high bass, low tenor.
35:51Maceo: A high bass, low tenor? When was that?
35:54Jack Li: Uh, high school. Yeah, I was in chorus for 2 years. Yeah, yeah, I used to do a lot of stuff with music. Now I just focus on producing songs.
36:06Maceo: You still do a lot with music.
36:08Jack Li: Yeah, but definitely I was like so many different things at once to narrow down a single thing. Yeah, I definitely think I upgraded, you know.
36:19Maceo: What do you mean?
36:23Jack Li: Like making your original songs, that’s definitely like different.
36:27Maceo: As what?
36:28Jack Li: Making original songs is definitely like really different from like, you know, playing like, like songs made by other people.
36:39Maceo: Yeah. How did you learn -- how did you start learning how to produce? Like, how did you start producing? When was that?
36:44Jack Li: Um,
36:44Maceo: was that like -- you said in like senior year of high school you started like writing songs?
36:47Jack Li: Yeah, well, I learned how to produce I think during my summer of 2019. I started, uh, I started learning how to produce. And like, I think in early 2000 -- like in early like 2020, like I still let other people produce for me because yeah, I haven’t established my skill yet. But yeah, I feel like my skill definitely matured like in like 2021. Yeah. Like all of the songs I produced by myself. Yeah, I used to go by a different artist name. I used to call myself Lil Freeze. That was my old --
37:34Maceo: Yeah, I do remember that.
37:35Jack Li: Yeah, that was my --
37:36Maceo: Jack Lil Freeze.
37:37Jack Li: Yeah, that was my old artist name. Yeah, now I just -- yeah.
37:42Maceo: Why’d you choose Lil Freeze before?
37:46Jack Li: It’s like every rapper is like a little stuff, you know? Yeah, like I watch a lot of anime. I love -- I watch Dragon Ball. Do you watch Dragon Ball? Yeah.
37:56Maceo: No, I don’t -- I haven’t watched Dragon Ball. Like, I’ve seen it, like, but I never watched it.
37:59Jack Li: There’s a character called Frieza.
38:01Maceo: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:02Jack Li: Yeah, that’s why, like, I really like that character. I named myself Lil Freeze after Frieza.
38:08Maceo: I fuck with that.
38:08Jack Li: Yeah.
38:09Maceo: That is calm. You like, uh, Holy Smokes with Trippie Redd and Lil Uzi?
38:15Jack Li: Oh yeah.
38:16Maceo: I like -- because he references Frieza in that song. That’s what comes to mind. Drink that purple stuff, it look like Frieza.
38:24Jack Li: Freeze.
38:25Maceo: You listen to Yeat at all?
38:27Jack Li: E-L?
38:28Maceo: Yeat.
38:29Jack Li: Yeat. Oh, Yeat. Yeah, Yeat is popping now.
38:33Maceo: Yeah, big time.
38:34Jack Li: Yeah, he’s big time, big time. He’s -- yeah, like, his music reminds me a lot of, like, Playboi Carti. Yeah.
38:43Maceo: Yeah, I think that’s fair, but he produces it as well now. He’s a producer. I don’t know if you know that.
38:48Jack Li: Yeah, I, I know. Yeah, he’s a producer.
38:51Maceo: I think that’s a big difference.
38:52Jack Li: I think he’s like a better producer than like a better rapper. I think
38:57Maceo: he’s a better producer than rapper.
38:58Jack Li: Yeah, I think he’s a better producer because like --
39:00Maceo: I agree.
39:01Jack Li: He has a unique music style, but he doesn’t have like a unique rap style.
39:06Maceo: I mean, I think he does just because he’s like rapping over unique beats. Like, I think --
39:11Jack Li: Yeah, but he does -- yeah, he, he doesn’t have like his own voice rap style, you know. He doesn’t have his own voice. Yeah, he He sounds pretty ordinary for me.
39:21Maceo: Ordinary?
39:22Jack Li: Yeah, like, if you think about like, Prevoicardi, like how he raps, like, ah, and like, you know, make noise, like, make noise like that, just, oh shit, that’s Prevoicardi, right? Yeah, but literally, like, he, um, hasn’t found his, like, his own voice yet.
39:43Maceo: Yeah, well, I can, I can agree with you.
39:45Jack Li: Yeah.
39:45Maceo: I just added Bell. Bing. I don’t know, it’s like dong, but yeah.
39:51Jack Li: It really reminds me, um, about like Smokepurpp. Yeah, they have a similar voice, I think. I think
40:00Maceo: that’s fair.
40:00Jack Li: Smokepurpp, uh, Comethathing.
40:03Maceo: Comethazine?
40:05Jack Li: Yeah.
40:07Maceo: First name Benjamin, last name Counter. Bands, bands, bands, that’s a check. talking, take off your pants, pants, pants. Bitch ain’t got no time for talking.
40:18Jack Li: Pants and pants.
40:19Maceo: That was the first Madison song I think I heard.
40:22Jack Li: Uh, there’s a, there’s a song called Nephew by, uh, Smokepurpp and Lil Pump. That’s a weird-ass song. That’s a weird-ass song, man.
40:32Maceo: Should I play it?
40:35Jack Li: Yeah.
40:35Maceo: Bitch ain’t got no time for talking. Hey, Wales, with YouTube Premium. You know, they met in school.
40:59Jack Li: Smokepurpp.
41:00Maceo: They went to school together.
41:02Jack Li: They are -- they actually went to school? Yeah.
41:12Maceo: It doesn’t surprise me that much.
41:28Jack Li: Like, I feel like E sounds similar to Smokepurpp. This sounds pretty similar.
41:40Maceo: I do remember this song.
41:59Jack Li: It’s a really funny song.
42:01Maceo: To what song?
42:02Jack Li: It’s a really funny song. What’s up?
42:06Maceo: What’s up, Isaac? How you doing? Chilling, watching, listening to Nephew. Yeah, yeah, there’s one upstairs in the fridge. I mean, that’s not that one from the fridge though, but yeah, you can take it. I don’t care. This Wale? Not Wale, sorry. This is Smokepurpp and Lil Pump. Doing a podcast and, uh, checking out some songs along the way. I’m not gonna let the song finish.
43:27Jack Li: Yeah, but you, you got my point, right?
43:31Maceo: Yes. I didn’t want to hear any more of that song, but yeah, it’s
43:38Jack Li: a funny song.
43:40Maceo: Like, I’m Doodlebop, and then Lil Pump started rapping. I was like, oof. But yeah, no, I get what you’re saying. I think, I think I like Yeat’s production sound. I agree. I think it’s, it’s cool, it’s new, and I think that like his approach to it is interesting. It’s like, uh, because it’s new. I think it’s like the same way I think about like drill music. I think it’s like first mover advantage. Like, I think there’s a lot of like bad lyricism oftentimes in rap music that comes before like good lyrics just because people are exploring new, uh, like new flows and stuff.
44:11Jack Li: Yeah, I definitely feel like flow-wise rap music haven’t progressed in these years.
44:16Maceo: It hasn’t?
44:17Jack Li: Yeah, it hasn’t.
44:19Maceo: You’re saying that you don’t think the flows have progressed?
44:22Jack Li: Yeah, I don’t think so because if you think about like flow-wise, who got the best flow? Yeah, it’s Kendrick, right?
44:30Maceo: Is it Kendrick?
44:31Jack Li: Yeah, I think it’s Kendrick. Like flow-wise, it’s always Kendrick. It’s always been Kendrick since like 2016, he dropped that like Damn album.
44:43Maceo: I don’t know, honestly, I don’t like his -- I don’t, I don’t really care for his flows that much.
44:49Jack Li: Yeah, like Kendrick --
44:51Maceo: You just mean like his, like his, like poetic delivery in general, like, like his structure?
44:56Jack Li: Yeah, he -- his delivery. But I mean, like, I feel like his best strength has always been flow. Yeah,
45:04Maceo: like give me a song for example.
45:06Jack Li: Like the new song Family Ties.
45:09Maceo: Wait, you mean the song with, uh --
45:12Jack Li: Baby Keem, that song. Like, have you heard like how crazy his flow is?
45:19Maceo: I didn’t like that song that much.
45:21Jack Li: Really? I really enjoyed that song. I love, fucking love that song.
45:25Maceo: I can see what you’re saying.
45:28Jack Li: Yeah, it’s crazy, bro.
45:30Maceo: That’s like the most -- that’s like the best argument I’ve heard in favor of Kendrick, I would probably say, ever. Because I don’t know, I’ve been like -- I’ve always been the kind of guy -- I’m not a big Kendrick fan.
45:40Jack Li: You’re not a Kendrick fan?
45:41Maceo: I’m not a very big Kendrick fan.
45:42Jack Li: You’re not a Kendrick fan? I thought you were a Kendrick fan. That’s what I thought, because you’re a pretty thoughtful person.
45:48Maceo: I’m what?
45:49Jack Li: You are a pretty thoughtful person. I thought you would like Kendrick, you know. That makes sense, right? Yeah.
45:56Maceo: But I don’t know, I think he’s cool, but like, I’ve never been a huge fan.
46:01Jack Li: Yeah. I think G.I.D got a really good flow.
46:08Maceo: G.I.D. That’s true as well.
46:09Jack Li: Um, well, Ski Mask the Slime God.
46:13Maceo: I think like the way I think about
46:19Jack Li: like the other name I have mentioned, they popped up before 2018. Yeah, I feel like these few years who got the best flow is like Cordae, you know?
46:31Maceo: Yeah,
46:31Jack Li: the new generation. Cordae got, I guess, the best flow, you know?
46:35Maceo: Yeah, I don’t know.
46:36Jack Li: Yeah,
46:37Maceo: but that’s why I think I like New York drill so much because I do like the flows. Like, I think the whole beats are different, so the flows are different. Yeah, that’s kind of what I like about it. It’s like a whole new kind of like b-boy scene.
46:45Jack Li: Yeah,
46:47Maceo: which I really fuck
46:48Jack Li: with. Drill beats at the same time is pretty easy to rap to. Yeah.
46:53Maceo: I don’t think so because I think it’s harder because it’s fast.
46:55Jack Li: No, you can rap slow on a drill beat. You can.
46:59Maceo: You can?
46:59Jack Li: You can, you can, you definitely can.
47:02Maceo: I don’t know.
47:04Jack Li: Imagine, just imagine in your head, how would 21 Savage rap on a drill beat? That’s your answer right here. How do you rap slow on the drill beat?
47:15Maceo: I feel like -- I think he potentially would rap more quickly still. Like, like, I like this beat. I think you could like rap more slowly to this, maybe. Okay, so it’s about to seem You get like a slower flow for this? Hmm? You have a slower flow you can like -- Yeah. Like, like how?
47:57Jack Li: I know R’s and V’s and O’s. You see what I’m saying?
48:06Maceo: That’s not slow.
48:07Jack Li: That’s pretty slow. That’s really slow. That’s a really slow flow.
48:15Maceo: You wanna try and freestyle to it?
48:17Jack Li: No, I’m not, I’m not gonna embarrass myself.
48:20Maceo: Please, please try.
48:21Jack Li: Nah.
48:22Maceo: If you want me to, I’ll cut it out. I’ll jump in, you can jump in, you can jump in after me. All right. Yeah, I got the freestyle. Hop in the room and we do it, making a podcast, you know, that’s just how we do it, uh, elevating all the status, you know, we really be blasting. Hop out the coupe everlasting, never ever ever lacking, uh, know what it is when you get To get to this like this, you gotta go crazy. Hop on the track, spitting the bars. Yeah, I’m making it wavy. Yeah, yeah, stay outside and stay heat. Stay outside in it. Stay outside, they can’t save me. Different beats, they really don’t matter. Versatility, the Second Amendment. Yeah, versatility, that’s how I’m spending. Yeah, yeah, everything you do, I steady be spending, uh, time and attention. Gotta go get it. Yeah, steady be focused. They really ain’t notice. It don’t matter, my magic in my pockets. No hocus and pocus, uh, it’s all on me. I’m making it happen. I hop on a beat, wind it up quick, just like a tracklist, like, uh, checking my boxes. I’m getting it done. Hop in the studio, I have me some fun. Building a brand, did that without none, uh. Got this equipment off of crypto in a month. Yeah, we them niggas that eat. It’s Send the money to the Addy. Yeah, you wanna connect? Yeah, dap, dap, dap me, uh. You know where I’m at, uh. Yeah, Marcel Thinks, that’s the Instagram. You can link me anytime, uh. Hit my DMs, I’mma answer it. Hop on the beat and I’m scanning it, uh. Listening steady and paying attention. Gotta go get it, I gotta go get it. Hop on a beat and I really might spin it. Hop on a beat and I’m paying attention. Hop on a beat and I’m giving them lessons. Hop on a beat and I really be stressing, uh. Wow.
50:23Jack Li: You nailed that shit, bro.
50:23Maceo: I appreciate that.
50:25Jack Li: You nailed that shit.
50:26Maceo: You gonna hop on in now?
50:27Jack Li: No.
50:28Maceo: No?
50:28Jack Li: No, I won’t. Yeah, say less, say less.
50:33Maceo: You don’t rap on this one?
50:35Jack Li: No, no, no, no,
50:37Maceo: no, no. You declining the freestyle?
50:38Jack Li: I feel like you should try. I can do a cypher though.
50:46Maceo: What do you mean?
50:47Jack Li: Like a cypher, like I have written bars.
50:49Maceo: Okay, yeah, hit us with some bars.
51:21Jack Li: Yeah. So we running the game, we are running the game, but that boy Jimmy Jolie, someone couldn’t catch the thing. You know we not in the same, we be switching the lane. You that type of shit, I’m way -- that’s so fucking fast.
51:29Maceo: Yeah, you going up though.
51:32Jack Li: Yeah. Shit, that’s so fucking fast, bro.
52:19Maceo: It’s tough though, you’re going
52:21Jack Li: off.
52:21Maceo: Yeah. I think that guitar is tough. Yeah, shout out Beats Kodak on YouTube for the video. This is a Kodak Black Tape beat portrait. You wanna check it out? There it is. Gotta pay credit, you know, gotta get credit. Yeah, add it up, add it up, stack it, that’s debit. You know what it is, how I’m coming. I’m coming, I’m coming, I’m coming out ready. Yeah, leave them on read. Damn, they getting mad. Send me address, send me the addy. Pull up, you know what it is. I hop out the coupe, it’s just like a cabbie. Yeah, riding a horse, son. Feel like a centaur. Yeah, yeah. Not in a cop car, never. Yeah, I gotta go far. Yeah.
53:05Jack Li: Yeah.
53:10Maceo: So do you ever freestyle?
53:11Jack Li: No, I don’t freestyle. I freestyle in my own studio, you know, like --
53:16Maceo: Oh yeah?
53:17Jack Li: Just freestyle, like, just flow-wise. I don’t freestyle any content, you know. Yeah, just want to throw some like, you know, um, flows out there. Yeah, just for flows. Got to remember that. Um, yeah, because our first impression of the beat is definitely, uh, the most accurate one.
53:38Maceo: Yeah, that’s true.
53:39Jack Li: Yeah, so whenever I hear a really good beat, I just freestyle some flows on the microphone. Yes, that’s what I do.
53:49Maceo: That’s your process?
53:50Jack Li: Yeah, that’s my process and yeah, I pull lyrics into the flow.
53:55Maceo: That makes sense. I think that’s something I should explore because I feel like I enjoy the freestyling because I feel like I really enjoy getting into a flow. And I think it would be cool if, you know, I never ever had to write and I just like, you know, I could just like step into the flow. But I feel like it’s so easy, like if you’re not doing it all the time, it’s really hard to actually keep up like the actual like a firm grip on like, I think like a firm bearing, I guess, on like how to say when you want to say what when.
54:20Jack Li: Yeah, definitely.
54:24Maceo: I think maybe I should start doing that.
54:25Jack Li: For me, it’s just, yeah, it’s really tough for me to like think about anything to say. Like when you hear something, you know, like think about actual things you want to
54:35Maceo: say. Yeah, that’s fair. But I feel like you just have to, at least the way I see it --
54:38Jack Li: Yeah, but I really spend more time writing about like meaningful stuff. That’s, yeah.
54:45Maceo: That’s fair. I think you can freestyle about anything though. I think that’s kind of the beauty of it in my mind. Like
54:48Jack Li: you can
54:48Maceo: freestyle about SpongeBob, about FNM, about going to the bathroom, about eating damn
54:52Jack Li: About eating dinner, you went to the bathroom.
54:55Maceo: Yeah, so I’m saying, you’d be like, I was at dinner eating on the toilet, they didn’t know what to do, but I really foiled them.
55:01Jack Li: Oh shit.
55:02Maceo: You know, just like, yeah, you say things and you’re just trying to like kind of get the percussive sound into it. But that’s kind of like how I think about it. I don’t know, I encourage everybody to freestyle. I feel like it’s just fun. Like, I feel like when I freestyle, people, it’s one of my favorite things. When people freestyle with me, I feel like I enjoy it.
55:20Jack Li: Yeah, definitely.
55:22Maceo: I feel like it’s like, uh, like I used to enjoy singing at like campfires at summer camp. Like, it’s kind of like a similar, similar vibe.
55:27Jack Li: Gotcha.
55:28Maceo: Who you been listening to lately, like music-wise? Like, who are like new people on your radar lately?
55:34Jack Li: Um, Central Cee.
55:37Maceo: Central Cee?
55:38Jack Li: Yes.
55:38Maceo: He’s from the UK, right?
55:39Jack Li: Yeah, yeah. I showed, I showed I showed you about him before. Yeah, Central Cee. There’s a song called Khabib. Do you know Khabib? Um, he’s like a UFC fighter, never lose a game.
55:55Maceo: Never lost a game?
55:56Jack Li: Never lose.
55:57Maceo: That’s kind of crazy.
55:58Jack Li: He never lose.
55:59Maceo: That’s not -- that’s definitely crazy. It’s not kind of crazy.
56:01Jack Li: You know Conor McGregor, right?
56:02Maceo: Yeah.
56:03Jack Li: Yeah, he like -- Conor McGregor lost to him.
56:38D: Hey, he’s tough, bro.
56:45Maceo: I fuck with this a lot. I know this song.
56:47Jack Li: Yeah, it’s pretty good. It’s hard, bro.
56:56Maceo: This song is ridiculously -- I like this song a lot.
56:58Jack Li: Yeah,
56:59Maceo: he’s a good -- he’s a good rapper.
57:01Jack Li: He is.
57:01Maceo: Oh, that was tough. That’s like the best drill rap I’ve heard.
57:05Jack Li: Just listen to the whole album.
57:09Maceo: I will.
57:10Jack Li: There’s also one song called Cold Shoulder. It’s also pretty good.
57:15Maceo: I was dead broke, I had no hope. I sat and thought my end of my life down bad. They asked how I got up, got up like a man. I said I’m all right. I was like, damn, he’s like tough.
57:24Jack Li: He’s really tough.
57:25Maceo: That’s how I’d like to be able to freestyle at all times.
57:27Jack Li: It’s like even tough white boy.
57:30Maceo: Yeah, I fuck with it. Tough White Boy, sure. Like, that was tough. That was very tough. I fuck with that. That’s cool. So you listen to some UK drill. Uh, are you thinking about making any drill music, do you think?
57:45Jack Li: Yeah.
57:45Maceo: Oh yeah?
57:46Jack Li: Yeah, my next project is about like drill music.
57:49Maceo: Exclusively?
57:50Jack Li: Yeah, exclusively.
57:51Maceo: That’s crazy.
57:52Jack Li: Yeah.
57:53Maceo: We got to -- we’re gonna have to do something together then.
57:56Jack Li: Definitely.
57:57Maceo: I like that. I like that. I’m gonna start -- I’m gonna start coming up with some flows and writing some stuff. I’m gonna adopt a new practice because that’s honestly like what I want more than anything right now is like I listen to so much drill, trying to find good drill producers because it’s like there’s only so many good drill producers and like I find beats, but it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know what I want to write about. I don’t know. I think it’s all excuses. Honestly, I have a lot of excuses. But what I’ve been listening to and what I want to make right now is I would like to be a drill rapper.
58:26Jack Li: Nice.
58:27Maceo: That’s how I focus.
58:28Jack Li: Yeah, definitely start like writing shit, you know? Yeah, the thought process matters. Yeah, personally, I find like writing bars, lyrics, I feel like it is a therapeutic process for me. Yeah, I really write about like a lot of personal stuff into my lyrics. Yeah, for us, like, for me, just definitely, uh, pretty therapeutic. You know, just know you can like express yourself somewhere, like in the art form.
59:02Maceo: Yeah, it’s important to figure out a way to express yourself.
59:05Jack Li: Yeah.
59:06Maceo: Okay, and now talk to us about kind of where you are in your career as an artist, I guess. Like you say, your next project’s gonna be like all drill focused.
59:17Jack Li: Yeah, I haven’t -- I just started my career.
59:20Maceo: Yeah, how do you think about that? How do you feel about that?
59:23Jack Li: Yeah, I’m not sure like the future ahead of me, to be honest, but I’ll just keep making music, like keep like dropping music, you know? Yeah, I need to like learn how to promote myself. I feel like that’s definitely pretty important. Definitely improve my skills and Yeah, keep promoting myself. Yeah.
59:45Maceo: That makes sense. Well, I think it’s a good way to promote yourself, coming on the podcast, talking about yourself, letting people know who you are. So everybody, everybody go make sure you check out Moody Montage, Instagram, Spotify. You have stuff on YouTube?
59:57Jack Li: Nah, I don’t have stuff on YouTube.
1:00:00Maceo: You have a Twitter?
1:00:00Jack Li: No, I don’t have Twitter.
1:00:02Maceo: Bro, you gotta make a Twitter.
1:00:03Jack Li: I don’t tweet stuff.
1:00:05Maceo: Yeah, you don’t have to tweet stuff. It’s still good too. I think Twitter’s a good app.
1:00:09Jack Li: Yeah,
1:00:09Maceo: but now Elon Musk just bought it, so.
1:00:11Jack Li: Elon Musk.
1:00:12Maceo: Yeah, what do you think about Elon Musk?
1:00:15Jack Li: I think, yeah, he’s a, he, he’s a guy in this generation, I guess. He’s the guy like for like 2020, you know, he’s a guy. Yeah.
1:00:28Maceo: Uh, okay, and then I guess the last thing I ever want to ask you about is, uh, The N-word, like the word nigga, your experience with that word, how you think about it, how you first encountered it. You told me it was like through YouTube, right?
1:00:44Jack Li: Yes, through YouTube. Yeah, because I was learning English from internet, you know. I learned English from watching stuff from YouTube. Yeah, I just start -- I started like learning English through like videos of my like personal interests, like for example, like street basketball. freestyle, like, podcast, you know? Yeah, like, at the beginning I thought, like, that N-word means, like, something similar to brother, you know?
1:01:13Maceo: Mhm.
1:01:14Jack Li: Brother, homie, you know? It was, like, something similar to that. Yeah, I didn’t -- like, I didn’t know, like, the history of, like, slavery before I, like, pick up my, like, American history. Person. Um, yeah, like my first impression was definitely that was like more like a friendly word. Yeah, because I, I was like seeing like Black people say it to themselves.
1:01:42Maceo: Yeah, like endearing way.
1:01:43Jack Li: Yeah.
1:01:44Maceo: Yeah, and that’s the best thing. That’s a big part of why, like, uh, like that’s how I think.
1:01:48Jack Li: I feel like, yeah, it’s definitely -- I like the part I really enjoy about Black culture is that like Black people are cool enough to own to own their, like, like, own their own, like, racial slur, you know?
1:02:01Maceo: Yeah,
1:02:01Jack Li: it’s like, it’s really hard for other ethnicities to do it, you know? Like, you’re like, you go on the street, like, they say, hey, you say the N-word to another Black people, right? But have you seen any, like, 2 Chinese people, hey, what’s up, my chink?
1:02:15Maceo: No.
1:02:16Jack Li: Yeah, what’s up, my chink? What’s up, my chink? You know, like, like, other race, they never do it. Like, it’s not my culture, you know, to earn your own racial slur.
1:02:29Maceo: Yeah,
1:02:30Jack Li: I think it’s really cool, like, you actually own that word, you know. We don’t own our own racial slur.
1:02:35Maceo: Yeah.
1:02:36Jack Li: Yeah.
1:02:37Maceo: Do you feel like Jewish people own the K-word?
1:02:39Jack Li: Yeah, they don’t -- like, they don’t say that to each other, right?
1:02:43Maceo: Yeah.
1:02:43Jack Li: Yeah, like, I feel like --
1:02:45Maceo: So no?
1:02:46Jack Li: Hmm?
1:02:46Maceo: So no, you don’t think so?
1:02:48Jack Li: I don’t think so. Okay.
1:02:50Maceo: Yeah, I was just curious. I feel like, I don’t know, I heard someone, someone said to me once, they were like, nobody even thinks about saying the K-word. Like, people will like say the word nigga like when they’re rapping, and it’s like, haha, like why not? But he’s like, nobody gets caught saying the K-word anywhere, anytime.
1:03:06Jack Li: K-word?
1:03:06Maceo: Yeah.
1:03:07Jack Li: What is the K-word?
1:03:09Maceo: Uh, the word is kike.
1:03:11Jack Li: What does it mean?
1:03:13Maceo: I don’t have a definition, honestly.
1:03:15Jack Li: What would --
1:03:15Maceo: but it’s a racial slur for Jewish people.
1:03:17Jack Li: Oh shit.
1:03:19Maceo: Yeah, you just asked me to say it. You’re funny. I don’t know what it is. Whatever. Okay, uh, I’m looking on Google. Otherwise it’s like --
1:03:30Jack Li: Yeah, but like people don’t like -- like Jewish people don’t say that.
1:03:33Maceo: It just says offensive Jewish person. Yeah, all right.
1:03:37Jack Li: Yeah, but they don’t, they don’t say that to each other, right?
1:03:40Maceo: Yeah, it says it’s according to this website It’s an anti-Semitic meme inappropriately invoking the Holocaust that uses a derogatory word for Jews. Kike is an ethnic slur for a Jewish person. Yeah. It said the earliest record of the word dates back to the 19th century.
1:03:57Jack Li: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, like, if you really think about it, like, Black people, it’s only, like, only ethnic group who actually, like, call each other by their, like, racial slur.
1:04:12Maceo: Yeah.
1:04:13Jack Li: Yeah, I think it’s pretty cool. For me, it just -- it shows, like, like, you don’t really -- like, really -- it feels strong, you know? It feels really strong to me, you know? Like, you, you, like, you can, like, feel confident to say that word to each other.
1:04:37Maceo: Yeah, I hear what you’re saying.
1:04:38Jack Li: Yeah.
1:04:38Maceo: Like, I definitely appreciate it as an endearing term as well, and that’s like why my podcast is called the We Them Niggas Podcast. I feel like it’s like a kind of endearing way to describe my community.
1:04:49Jack Li: Yeah, I used to call -- me and Hudson, I used to -- we used to call each other like, what’s up, my chink?
1:04:55Maceo: You and Hudson?
1:04:56Jack Li: Yeah, we think that’s pretty funny, you know, we think that’s really Yeah, I feel like, you know, if you can get rid of the negative meaning under your racial slur, like, you’re like, you, you are, you are a stronger version of yourself.
1:05:16Maceo: Mm-hmm.
1:05:16Jack Li: Yeah, that’s how I think, how I think about it. Yeah, yeah, we were saying this in front of like, in front of other Chinese people. Like, other Chinese people tell us to knock it off, you know. Yo, what’s up, my ching sa? Stop saying that word. I was like --
1:05:34Maceo: Oh, they don’t like it?
1:05:35Jack Li: They don’t like it. They don’t like it at all.
1:05:37Maceo: Oh, fascinating.
1:05:38Jack Li: Yeah.
1:05:39Maceo: Have you had anyone call you that?
1:05:41Jack Li: Hmm?
1:05:41Maceo: Have you ever had anyone call you that?
1:05:42Jack Li: What’s up, my ching?
1:05:45Maceo: Yeah, not like, not like that, but yes, like, like not a Chinese person.
1:05:49Jack Li: Oh, like, um --
1:05:51Maceo: In like a hostile way. Has anybody ever called you a ching?
1:05:53Jack Li: Like, no, like nobody in the other racial group called me that. Yeah, yeah, I feel like it’s not really a common term to use. Yeah.
1:06:03Maceo: No, I agree. I was just curious.
1:06:05Jack Li: Do you know -- do you know Yihao?
1:06:10Maceo: The student?
1:06:12Jack Li: Yeah.
1:06:13Maceo: Yeah.
1:06:13Jack Li: Yeah, yeah, we used to say that word to him. Yeah, we used to say, what’s up, my qing chang? And he got really mad.
1:06:21Maceo: I’m dead.
1:06:23Jack Li: Yeah, I’m really dead, you know.
1:06:26Maceo: Yeah, I used to --
1:06:27Jack Li: Like, I’m okay for other people to call me that, you know, like, as long as we are friends, you know, like, but some people just get really offended by that.
1:06:35Maceo: Yeah.
1:06:36Jack Li: Yeah.
1:06:36Maceo: I was gonna say, I know in high school I used to kind of antagonize people like that. Like, I had Korean friends and I would definitely be saying like some wild stuff. Like, I was just trying to like instigate. Like, I’ll be trying to like trigger him.
1:06:52Jack Li: Yeah, like you called him a chink before?
1:06:53Maceo: I, I was saying wild stuff to him. Yeah, my friend HJ in particular.
1:06:59Jack Li: Oh, he didn’t talk to you for like a year, right?
1:07:01Maceo: Yeah.
1:07:02Jack Li: Oh, that friend. Yeah, you fucking deserve it, bro.
1:07:05Maceo: Yeah, that was wild. I was like, oops. Yeah, that was not good, not good behavior at all. Shout out HJ.
1:07:13Jack Li: HJ, shout out.
1:07:14Maceo: I think he’s in New Orleans. That’s where he’s in school. But yeah, I don’t know. I think I’ve grown since then. Definitely have a better sense of like what it is to be culturally competent and considerate.
1:07:27Jack Li: Yeah, yeah, but like Koreans, they can be -- they forget, like, offended by all sorts of different ways. Yeah.
1:07:36Maceo: Is that true?
1:07:37Jack Li: Yeah, that’s, that’s so fucking true. Like, it’s pretty easy to offend like Korean people. It’s so easy.
1:07:44Maceo: I don’t know, I haven’t heard that before.
1:07:45Jack Li: Yeah, they have a high ratio self-esteem, I guess. Yeah, I know a lot of like Korean people, they’re pretty -- yeah, it’s really easy to offend like a Korean student, you know, like compared to a Japanese student. Like Japanese students are, yeah, not really easy to be offended.
1:08:09Maceo: Yeah, I don’t know. I never thought about it too much.
1:08:11Jack Li: Yeah, there’s like a difference, you know.
1:08:14Maceo: Are there any -- I don’t know, to digress a little bit -- are there any people that you want to make music with in the future that you haven’t been making music with yet? And then after that, anybody you want to shout out?
1:08:26Jack Li: I feel like I made music with people I know. Yeah, like definitely I need to make like know more people who actually make music. Yeah, I definitely need more support, you know, from friends. And because, you know, like, having a music -- musical career is not -- it’s not an easy thing, you know?
1:08:52Maceo: Yeah.
1:08:52Jack Li: Like, you have to consistently, you know, drop your music without receiving any benefits from it. It’s hard.
1:09:02Maceo: I feel like that’s honestly a big part of why I’ve been making music super proactively, because I feel like I see that it’s like I put in all that effort and still not go anywhere necessarily, whereas I feel like this podcast was something I can do constructively.
1:09:15Jack Li: Not really. Um, I think one of the, uh, benefits from like making music is not really about like how your music is influencing other people, how many people are checking out your music. If you see yourself, if you, um, think your music -- like, you’re consistently making better music, like, it shows us -- it shows like you can progress, you can improve yourself, not only in music but in other aspects.
1:09:47Maceo: Yeah.
1:09:48Jack Li: Because you’re putting effort, you’re producing more, like, better music, right? But if you take the same efforts in life, your life will get better.
1:09:57Maceo: That’s true. How do you think about like making life better? What does a good life look like to you?
1:10:05Jack Li: It’s a tough question. It’s a really tough question. Yeah, because I feel like we are always like chasing something. After you get this thing you were chasing, You’re chasing for others, you start chasing for other stuff. Yeah, it’s like a non-stop loop, you know, like we are always chasing for stuff like we want. Yeah, but there’s always new stuff we want. Life with satisfaction, you’re satisfied with yourself, with your social status, you know, with who you are. I feel like that’s a good life. Satisfaction.
1:10:48Maceo: Satisfaction, fulfillment. I would agree with that. I definitely agree with that. Thank you for answering.
1:10:54Jack Li: Yeah, that’s the way I feel about it. Like, have you ever felt like, um, you know, you always want to get a certain thing, you know, after you finally got it, like, you’re not as excited as you expected?
1:11:10Maceo: Yeah,
1:11:11Jack Li: yeah.
1:11:11Maceo: It’s like when I fixate on things.
1:11:13Jack Li: I feel like the process definitely matters. The process you want to get the stuff you want, like the process, like you’re chasing stuff. That’s the satisfaction, not the result.
1:11:24Maceo: Yeah, it’s like the journey.
1:11:25Jack Li: Yeah, like the journey. I enjoy the journey, you know.
1:11:28Maceo: I think that kind of comes back actually to like what I was saying about me in the podcast. Like, I think people can see my growth, but like I’m content to like not rush growth in that space. Because I feel like doing like this, for example, like I could have been focused on like writing more music, um, and I could still not have recorded anything by now and also not have done these interviews with people.
1:11:51Jack Li: Mm-hmm.
1:11:51Maceo: Um, but I think it’s cool to be able to sit down and be with people and have the opportunity to ask them questions and share thoughts that I just wouldn’t have otherwise thought to have if I weren’t like having an intentional conversation with people. And so I feel like the podcast is a way for me to sell myself before I sell myself as an artist.
1:12:05Jack Li: Yeah, definitely.
1:12:06Maceo: And that’s kind of what I’m interested in. Like, I think when I look at like musicians that I think do a good job of promoting themselves with what they’re doing is collaborating with different artists from different places, um, to expand their audience and, and promote their own exposure. And I think that this podcast is a way for me to expose myself to all different people’s audiences. It’s like people come here to hear about you and they get to find out who I am because I’m a vehicle for them to hear about you. It would be cool for them to hear about Isaac upstairs or Julia or Alessia or, or Gabe or really anybody, like professors, musicians.
1:12:40Jack Li: Like, yeah, have you, um, I want to be a way for people --
1:12:43Maceo: Have you interviewed Isaac? Yeah, I interviewed Isaac.
1:12:44Jack Li: Nice.
1:12:45Maceo: Yeah, but I want to be like a, like a means to an end for people. Like, I want to be like almost like a go-between because I think like, like you’re saying, like being an artist is like, like, and supporting yourself is hard. I think, yeah, what you really want is like you want a community, you want people that support Yeah, it’s
1:13:01Jack Li: really about self-satisfaction. Seriously.
1:13:03Maceo: That’s how you think about music?
1:13:05Jack Li: Yeah, that’s the way I think about it.
1:13:08Maceo: Yeah, well, I don’t -- that’s why, but I mean, I feel like this is fulfilling for me as well. Like, I feel like this doesn’t feel fake at all. It feels like it’s exciting to be able to, like, to do this, to be able to listen to this forever. I think, like, when I’m like 80, listen back, like, this conversation.
1:13:23Jack Li: Listen to our conversation, you know, our 20s, you know.
1:13:26Maceo: Yeah, it’s like a window into who we were.
1:13:28Jack Li: Yeah, definitely.
1:13:30Maceo: I don’t have a whole lot of other questions for you. I know it’s getting late, but tell us about who you have made music with in the past.
1:13:39Jack Li: Who you have?
1:13:40Maceo: Yeah, like shout out people you’ve been making music with in the past so like people can check them out.
1:13:44Jack Li: I made music with Stan, Hillary, a friend of mine, um, we went to the same high school as Yeah, Kenzie. Shout out to Kenzie.
1:13:56Maceo: Shout out to Kenzie.
1:13:58Jack Li: Yeah. Who else?
1:14:00Maceo: We can exit on his song.
1:14:01Jack Li: Hmm?
1:14:02Maceo: We can exit on his song.
1:14:03Jack Li: Mm-hmm.
1:14:05Maceo: Yeah,
1:14:05Jack Li: yeah. Uh,
1:14:06Maceo: I played your song before as well.
1:14:08Jack Li: Nightlife Troll. Shout out to Nightlife Troll. Um, yeah, I haven’t been making music with a whole lot of people. Yeah, but I showed some of my demo to, um, some, some of the TV shows.
1:14:21Maceo: Oh yeah?
1:14:23Jack Li: Yeah.
1:14:24Maceo: You sold it to TV shows?
1:14:25Jack Li: Yeah, I sold it to TV shows. Some of my demos to like, like idol TV shows,
1:14:33Maceo: you know? Like idol music?
1:14:35Jack Li: Yeah, idol music.
1:14:36Maceo: That’s pretty cool.
1:14:36Jack Li: Yeah.
1:14:37Maceo: What shows? Like, what do you mean?
1:14:39Jack Li: Yeah, there’s like idol TV shows back in China.
1:14:44Maceo: They asked you for your music?
1:14:46Jack Li: Yeah, they’re gathering like music, you know, rap lyrics, rap demos, you know.
1:14:52Maceo: And they bought it from you?
1:14:53Jack Li: Yeah, they bought it from me.
1:14:55Maceo: For how much?
1:14:55Jack Li: Like $40. $40 for like 16 bars.
1:15:02Maceo: That’s pretty nice. Yeah. Do they credit you?
1:15:06Jack Li: No, they don’t credit me. That’s the point.
1:15:09Maceo: That’s crazy.
1:15:10Jack Li: That’s the point.
1:15:11Maceo: What do you mean they only gave you $40?
1:15:12Jack Li: Yeah, they only gave me $40.
1:15:14Maceo: And they don’t credit you? I feel like if they give you $40, that’s like --
1:15:17Jack Li: Nah, they didn’t. They’re not gonna credit me because, you know, um --
1:15:20Maceo: That’s wild.
1:15:21Jack Li: Yeah, they’re gonna claim the idol wrote the lyrics. Yeah.
1:15:26Maceo: And you only -- they only wanted to pay you $40?
1:15:29Jack Li: They’re gonna -- yeah. I did it as like practice, you know.
1:15:33Maceo: Uh-huh.
1:15:33Jack Li: Yeah.
1:15:34Maceo: So you just wrote it and gave it to
1:15:37Jack Li: them? Yeah, I wrote it, gave it to them. They wrote it, recorded it, I gave it to them.
1:15:39Maceo: I see, that makes more sense. Yeah. I thought it was like --
1:15:41Jack Li: They sent me over the beat, I wrote it, I recorded it, I sent it back to them. Yeah, because there’s gonna be somebody gonna rewrite some of the stuff in my lyrics because, you know, Chinese TV shows, like, you don’t -- you can’t mention certain words like violence, guns, you know. Yeah.
1:16:02Maceo: By far.
1:16:03Jack Li: Yeah, tattoos. Yeah, cigarettes, marijuana. Yeah. Definitely not like Kendrick Lamar stuff. Definitely not attacking any political stuff. Yeah.
1:16:19Maceo: So there’s not a lot of political rap music?
1:16:21Jack Li: No, there’s zero political rap music in China. No.
1:16:24Maceo: I didn’t know that.
1:16:25Jack Li: Yeah.
1:16:26Maceo: Do you ever think you would make political music?
1:16:30Jack Li: I don’t -- yeah, that’s not like -- I don’t really know a lot of political stuff.
1:16:35Maceo: Does it interest you at all?
1:16:37Jack Li: No.
1:16:38Maceo: No?
1:16:39Jack Li: No, not at all. Political stuff, yeah, definitely not my thing.
1:16:43Maceo: That’s fair.
1:16:45Jack Li: Yeah.
1:16:46Maceo: Does it stress you out?
1:16:48Jack Li: I mean, yeah. Yeah, I feel like politics is sometimes -- I feel like politics is just bullshit, you know? Yeah.
1:16:57Maceo: Yeah, it’s bullshit.
1:16:58Jack Li: I
1:16:58Maceo: said yeah, it’s bullshit.
1:17:00Jack Li: Yeah, it’s bullshit. It is. Yeah, so I tend not to think about it, you know.
1:17:05Maceo: Yeah.
1:17:06Jack Li: It definitely feels stressful, stressful, you know, to think about like a power on top of us are making bullshit.
1:17:12Maceo: Yeah.
1:17:14Jack Li: Yeah.
1:17:15Maceo: I don’t know. I really -- I didn’t really follow politics very much until coming to FNM, honestly.
1:17:19Jack Li: Yeah, like a lot of people in your FNM talk about politics. I definitely feel that. I definitely feel it. Yeah,
1:17:27Maceo: yeah, but
1:17:27Jack Li: it’s just definitely not my, my topic. Yeah.
1:17:30Maceo: Oh, that’s fair. I was just gonna say, like, I’ve been getting more into it since being here at F&M. Um, I don’t have any, like, other questions about it. I was just gonna say, like, I’ve become -- I have become more interested in, like, uh, what does geopolitics look like at the global level? Like, how do we think about, like, social movements at the global scale? Like, what do they look like in different cities, different countries, different places? Yeah. Like, I know when I was talking to you before, I was asking you, like, do you feel like there’s any, like, cultural, like, kind of, like, attitude and, like, around Dalian or, like, the region in China? And that’s kind of what I meant. Like, are there, like, social movements almost?
1:18:04Jack Li: Gotcha. All right.
1:18:06Maceo: That’s something I’m really interested in is, like, where are social movements? Why are they happening? In response to what? Like, I think, like, I think I’m interested definitely in some anthropological questions. But yeah, but yeah, you said shout out to, uh, Kenzie?
1:18:22Jack Li: Yeah, Kenzie. Shout out
1:18:24Maceo: to Kenzie. So I guess we’ll head out of this interview with the author on this track. This is your song Happier with 9 Lives Due. Yeah. Damn. It says that it -- it says I could read the lyrics, but not on this. So yeah, this is your song Happier with Nine Lives, dude.
1:19:03Jack Li: Yeah.
1:19:09Maceo: Produced by Manuji Beats?
1:19:11Jack Li: Mm-hmm.
1:19:12Maceo: Who’s that?
1:19:12Jack Li: Um, just another friend of mine.
1:19:15Maceo: They have Instagram?
1:19:16Jack Li: No, I don’t have his Instagram.
1:21:46Maceo: Absolute fucking gas. Jesus.
1:21:49Jack Li: You wanna, you wanna play like this, my friend’s song, Kenzie’s song?
1:21:52Maceo: Yeah, don’t worry. Oh yeah, don’t worry, he’s gonna hear it as well. But I just want everybody, you know, we just shared some of your music, Moody Montage, the man Jack. Go check it out. Goddamn.
1:22:05Jack Li: Freshman of the year. Goddamn. Freshman of the Year.
1:22:10Maceo: Freshman of the Year. Talk about it, talk about it. Check him out, he’s up next. No cap, he’s hyper talented, hyper talented. You know what it is though, we do love some drill music here on the We Them Niggas podcast. I’m a drill aficionado, so he showed me this, he showed me this, and I’m, I’m ecstatic to hear it. Kenzie’s going up, no cap. He should be on Spotify. Okay, let’s go. Absolutely heat. And this sample, bro.
1:24:41D: Oh yeah, the girl in the song. Yeah, he’s like a hyperpop.
1:24:45Maceo: Oh, she is?
1:24:46C: She is.
1:24:47D: Yeah,
1:24:47Maceo: she had fire flow.
1:24:48D: Yeah, just her, her like vocal, her autotune, and like the way she was singing sounded like very hyperpop. And like, she is -- I’ve never heard, uh, I’ve never heard a hyperpop drill song before, and I like that. It’s very cool. Very cool.
1:25:05Maceo: What’s her name?
1:25:08D: Yeah, she was tough.
1:25:08Maceo: Yeah, so that --
1:25:10D: I like the sweater flow. I like that.
1:25:12Maceo: Yeah. Kenzie, his Instagram, @kenzineon. Go check that out. I got a little bit into hyperpop last year. My good friend Mark, Mark Morata, he was putting me on some hyperpop. Like right after --
1:25:28C: I don’t know how to say her name. Yeah,
1:25:35Maceo: who knows.
1:25:35C: Yeah, the song art is
1:25:38Maceo: like a indie So my speaker died, but that was, uh, Hottie Gangs. Thank you for coming to listen to the We Them Niggas podcast.
1:26:41Jack Li: Let’s
1:26:44Maceo: get it, let’s get it,
1:26:45Jack Li: let’s get it.
1:26:45Maceo: And this was Moody Montage, the man. Jack Lee. Tell us your first name one more time.
1:26:50Jack Li: Junghwan.
1:26:52Maceo: Yes, sir. The man, the myth, the motherfucking legend who’s gonna shake the universe. Already doing it.
