Let's Talk About ETH: Around the World w/ Fidesio

0:00AWe are back in the building for Let’s Talk About ETH. Yes, episode 4. I’m here with my guys, my amazing, uh, podcast hosts. But I’m Ohnahji B. Bryan, founder behind Ohnahji and Ohnahji University. Uh, you know, just rocking this livestream journey, going crazy. Uh, but yeah, this -- we’re, we’re sitting here again Wednesday night, um, you know, 3 PM PST. But I got my guy Better Call Saul in the building and Maceo from We There Media. We got a special guest in the building as well too, so Yeah, we’re gonna introduce him and get into another amazing conversation, man. How you guys feeling? What’s going on? Z, what’s the word, man? How you doing today?

0:35BI’m feeling good. It’s a beautiful Wednesday here, Wavy Wednesday. A lot of different things experimenting with in this, you know, beginning of April. I’m excited. I think there’s gonna be a lot of fun opportunities for people to try new things. Like I’ve been saying, the experimental tech side of this is what always excites me. And in the last few days even, there’ve been some cool things that I’ve been building on top of that have been a lot of fun to try out. So yeah, kick it over to you, Misael.

1:06COkay, that’s sick. I’m doing great. Today’s my last day in Denver, Colorado. I’ve been here about 6 weeks. First day I saw Zoll, last day I’m seeing Zoll. I like that. And we’re well into the podcast, no less. That makes me feel good about some follow-through. I’m excited to have Fedesio here. Um, I’m excited you’ve been helping us, coming, helping us with clipping and actually getting our workflows around the podcast moving again, which I definitely appreciate because I needed to start asking for help and delegating and not just trying to catch up. Um, and so yeah, I’m excited to have you on and excited to, yeah, be hanging out with you guys. How are you doing, Fedesio?

1:43DI’m doing great. Uh, it’s around, uh, 1 AM, that is right here in Kenya, but I don’t know what’s the time in your current countries, but in Kenya here we are good, the weather is good, it’s kind of -- we just came from a rainy season, so it’s sunny, but yeah, it’s good, everything is good, and also I’m good, I’m doing good.

2:17AThat’s all to hear. That’s crazy. I love, I love how global this thing is. I hope -- I love how global just, you know, uh, building in blockchain, building community, you know, with Ethereum communities and different things like that. So yeah, I’m in LA, you know, sunny LA, still sun’s out, it’s, uh, 3 PM. So yeah, I’m trailing all of you guys. I think that’s a big dub.

2:38CNo, that’s true. And, uh, and Brian, he just gave his yes to a, to like a 5 AM podcast end of the month, so he’s, he’s braving the -- I don’t know exactly what time it is for you, honestly, but I know it’s out of the ordinary time, and I’m feeling grateful and a little bit relieved. Uh, Zal’s been letting me know I gotta watch myself. He’s been checking me in the chats.

3:04AUm, nah, you’re all good.

3:07CUh, but what’s it called, Fidesio? Uh, I’d love for you to introduce yourself, tell the audience a bit about you, how you got into the Web3 space, what you find yourself doing in the space. Yeah, yeah, whatever feels right.

3:17DYeah, I’m a content creator. So currently I’m working on a show called, um, Haseyangu Show. So it’s more like a show that tells stories of African business people and African builders. And I’ve been doing this for the current 3 years. That is, and I can say like, this show is the reason that I got into web3. Because I remember like the very first episode we did, we did it with my friends. And at the moment they were building an app. It was called Benkiko. And so we decided, so it’s, uh, this app, it’s more like a fintech app, uh, and they were gonna use like, you know, crypto and Web3 to make the transactions.

3:17DSo I did a story around them and that’s now what pulled me into, into Web3. And since then I’ve been meeting, uh, that is, uh, crypto guys, that is meeting, uh, Web3 startup founders. I’ve been into Web3 events and actually been in a couple of Web3 events that is not just in Kenya, but also Kenya has a very, very active -- that is Web3 and crypto. And also this is because of -- also because of Kenya’s like, how can I put it, more like strategic like advantage. So that is, uh, we have more like a stable country and also our mobile money is very, very -- we use a lot of mobile money.

3:17DSo when crypto came, it’s more like, uh, integrated into already working system. And also there is also in terms of politics, uh, it’s easier to hold us all, it’s easier to build a company much more in East Africa, that is especially in Kenya. It’s easy to build a Web3, a crypto startup. It’s much more harder in our northern neighbors like Ethiopia. In Uganda, maybe there is less resources. So Kenya has been having a very, very active Web3 community. There’s been a couple of Web3 events happening here. So yeah, that’s been my journey. And also last year I got to attend, there is a DevCon back, that is in India.

3:17DSo from that, I was able to meet with a lot of people, you know, from different countries and see what they’re building. And it was pretty enlightening and also pretty encouraging, like, you know, meeting all these different people and realizing, like, you know, we are trying to solve the same challenge, maybe localized in different countries. But like, at the end of the day, we are trying to solve, like, you know, the same challenges. We also, we all facing in our communities. So yeah, that’s me. That’s Fidesi.

6:27BI love that. I think the thing that everyone looks at the blockchain, they look at this international ability to transfer money, but I really got into the whole on-chain economy through the regenerative movement, like focused on small impact community building. How can we make our specific local community around us better with this technology? And I think that’s still a challenge today. How can we implement that? Because everyone’s always had this challenge of onboarding. And I think it’s really cool to see the strides in technology that have been built, not only by folks in Africa and different folks in different places that have an ability now to do things that they weren’t able to before. And that bar, like you said, to create a company, to create a brand, to create any --

7:17CYeah.

7:17BTo create anything almost now today is being lowered step by step. So it’s really cool and powerful to hear like local community initiatives.

7:26DYeah, for sure.

7:28BI’d love to know a little bit more, like if you want to chat about how you see blockchain impacting that local economy.

7:43DSo for me, I think the way it’s impacting that, or maybe even the way it’s currently impacting it at the moment. Um, uh, blockchain has made it easy for remittance, that is especially movement of money around, uh, that is, uh, Kenyans receiving money from either Europe or even US, that is all over the world. So it has made remittance very easy because even right now, like let’s say Marcel can send me USDC or I can send Marcel USDT and then I can, you know, withdraw it easily through P2P. Before, it was very complicated because I would have to give them my bank details, then from there, from the -- I’ll have to pay a wire transfer from that.

7:43DSo like crypto or the blockchain has made it easy for these transactions and also this payment to be much more faster. And also very much more cheaper because the transaction cost is much more lower. But also I think it has like opened up like that is the country to other people because I can say like the reason the crypto community or the Web3 community in Kenya has been very active is because of the effort of other people. That is, and these are mostly community managers of different, either of different chains, of BASE, of all these different chains who have come either to Kenya to teach people about these.

7:43DAnd actually the way it used to go, like, and also what’s happening at the moment, these community managers will go to different campuses and they would like either teach students about what is Web3, what is the blockchain, how to build on the blockchain. And so that’s really got a lot of people interested in Web3 or in all these different chains. So yeah, that’s one of the things I can say.

10:00AI love that. And I think that’s a huge piece that kind of gets lost on a lot of other people that are building in Web3 just globally is that You know, this has been game-changing tech for a lot, a lot of people around the globe. And it’s like, you know, we’re able to just -- the ability and the ease of, you know, transacting, building, collaborating cross-borders now is insanely different. Like, something like this did not exist before blockchain. And I think a lot of times, you know, sometimes people, especially in the US, they’ll be in their little bubbles like, oh, okay, you know, we’re just gambling. There’s rugs and scams and stuff. It’s like, no, people are building businesses, global communities, uh, global corporations and different things, you know, building IP together, uh, globally like they’ve never done on the internet before. So yeah, that’s dope, man. Shout out to you and keep grinding, keep going and teaching the kids, teaching the youngsters, man. That’s, that’s what it’s all about, man. Each one teach one.

11:00CYeah.

11:00AAnd like you mentioned, you said, you know, this is all from people who have come before and made strides in, you know, furthering this innovation, furthering this tech. And that’s what it’s about, man. It started, you know, with that, that open source mentality. It’s like we’re putting putting this, this tech out. We’re building this tech out for everybody, you know, to use and to, to help humanity grow. And it’s amazing to see people just continuing that mission and, um, you know, not taking -- not coming into it and being like, okay, what can I do for myself? But no, like, how can I pass this on to the next generation or onto, you know, my family and friends and just building that network together? So shout out to you, man.

11:35DThank you. Thank you very much.

11:38CYeah, I was, um, I’m curious to hear you speak a little bit about between Ethiopia and Argentina, you know, how would you like, yeah, tell us about that journey for you and what that’s been like for you as a content creator, as somebody learning about what this technology means, but not necessarily, right, as a finance person or as like a founder yourself, like a startup founder, right? But just somebody seeing the narrative, seeing the world, documenting it, helping other people tell their stories. Like, what’s that been like for you?

12:01DUh, so for me, I can say like, uh, Even though Ethiopia is our neighbors and it’s like 24 hours, there is a drive or by bus, I think there is a very strong divide. It’s more like an iron wall and it’s not like a literal wall, it’s more like a culture wall because these communities are very different. And when I traveled to Ethiopia for my first time, I felt it. Even though like we are all in Africa, for Ethiopia it’s more different. And one thing is because they have a different language from what we speak. For us, we speak English as one of the main languages and also Swahili.

12:01DAnd but Swahili, Ethiopians don’t speak Swahili and also they don’t speak English. So there’s more like it’s very hard to communicate with them. And that was one thing that hit me. But also I realized that because Ethiopia is mainly like -- their main language is Amharic, they don’t have English as a must to be taught in their schools. So most of the people, there’s a lot of language barrier. And I think this has been one of the things that has contributed to not like a lot of people fully adopting to crypto or knowing about crypto. But also the surprising thing, considering, you know, Ethiopia population, they are one of the leading countries with the highest number of crypto or Web3 users.

12:01DAnd that’s because the population is big, but still considering like, you know, the literacy level, if the literacy level was much more higher, there will be more people that is, uh, onboarded in Web3 or on the blockchain. So I can say like that’s one of the things that I noted when I got into Ethiopia. But also we met with a lot of founders and these are founders who are trying to build in different industries. And Ethiopia is more like, it’s not like Kenya, you know, Kenya, we have a lot of competition in terms of companies from all over the world. They are setting up here.

12:01DSo there’s a lot of competition. But in Ethiopia, it’s more like a controlled economy by the government. So for the local startup, it’s very easy for them to start off and get a lot of users. And I noted this with their sharing app. For us in Kenya, we use Bolt, we use Uber, but in Ethiopia, they have their own that is like sharing app. And it has a lot of users, over 100 -- over, I think, 20 million users. And that’s pretty impressive. And I think in terms of Web3, in terms of blockchain, that’s the same angle I think it will be because it will be like a fresh ground when anyone will set up either a Web3 company or a P2P or a fintech company, it should be easy to get users because the market is very fresh.

12:01DAnd also in terms of content, I can say, yes, I made content while I was there, but I saw, I cannot say in terms of content, there’s a lot of content creators that is in the entertainment sector. But also in terms of maybe like documenting with 3 stories or crypto stories, we don’t have people yet who are like, you know, maybe like people like myself who are trying to get in there. This is something that is, I think, still fresh there in Ethiopia. So unless you guys maybe have a question about Ethiopia, maybe I can move on and talk about my experience in Argentina.

16:21CYeah, I mean, one thing I’d be curious to hear you speak to is I know Nairobi is also very diverse, but between getting to be at the event and the events in Nairobi, like Eat Safari, and then Ethiopia, right, what is your take on, I guess, just how you see the community of builders, right, in East Africa?

16:42DSo I can say like in Nairobi, of course, it’s very, very diverse. compared to Ethiopia. And that is because that is the language thing. There’s a lot of people coming in Kenya, in Nairobi to set up. And also Kenya has more tourist attractions compared to Ethiopia. So events in Nairobi are much more diverse. That is, even when we hold crypto events like Eid Safari, people come all over from the world. But when we held the event in Ethiopia, then even though people came from all over the world, but it’s not like there were a lot of people who knew about the event. It felt more -- even though people are from all over the world, it felt like an isolated event.

16:42DPeople aren’t talking about it in Ethiopia, but when you come to Kenya, when you hold a crypto or Web3 event, it doesn’t feel like, you know, isolated. A lot of people will talk about it around the country, in Nairobi. So yeah, I think in Nairobi it’s pretty diverse. So, uh, the next part now is in Argentina for the DevCon. Uh, I think I can say what I learned, um, in Argentina. It’s more like, um, learning from other people and, and the network, like, you know. And also building in public, because I think you can choose, like, maybe you have an idea and you want to build it, you can choose maybe to isolate yourself.

16:42DBut I realize, like, coming together, meeting with different people, you build faster because you realize, like, you know, the problem you’re dealing with or the challenge you’re having, your friends solve it. Sometimes back or even years back. So all you need is to get the information and that exchanging of knowledge is what makes someone like, you know, maybe build faster, ship faster. And also it’s easier to get like, you know, like feedback. Like there is even, there is genuine feedback about what you’re building. You can even get experience from people who have built it in different markets. Or people who have made it successful in different markets.

16:42DSo I think, uh, that is one thing that stood out for me in DevCon, like, you know, meeting different people from all over the world building different products. Like, you know, there was a lot of hackathons, so seeing builders from all over the world hacking, trying to build stuff within a limited time, you know, and seeing like, you know, the working -- the work culture of different people. So yeah, that was, uh, one thing that, uh, stood out, uh, to me.

20:10AAnd so what were some of like the, um, like the, like the coolest builds or like the most like, um, impressive things that you’ve seen at some of the hackathons? Like what was something that stood out to you like, oh dang, they built that, that’s impressive, and they built it that fast? Because sometimes those hackathons are Crazy.

20:30DSo, uh, maybe I can say one thing that stood out for me, or maybe a product I used while I was there. Uh, it’s called Peanut. So Peanut, uh, is one of the methods that help us, like, you know, especially like, you know, foreigners pay for things locally. And it’s a crypto product, so you can just, uh, easily -- like, I think right now it’s more localized in Argentina. So you could easily top up it via crypto, either USDC or USDT. And then from there you could pay stuff with it. You could either like scan a QR code or you could maybe pay via their credit card.

20:30DSo that was one of the products that stood out for me. That is, this is a product that I used. In terms of hackathon, I think Back then when I think, uh, when the event was happening, the AI agents or AI was just, uh, AI agents were just like, you know, getting, going viral. So I think, uh, there was someone who built an AI agent that could, uh, that could paste stuff. That is, uh, that could, I don’t remember, but, uh, it was, uh, it was around like, uh, paying stuff that is on the Base ecosystem. So that’s another product that stood out for me back then.

21:53AThat’s sick. Love to hear it, man. That’s cool. Go ahead, Mosayo. I cut you off, man. What were you going to say?

22:00CNo, you’re okay. I was about to jump in. I was just going to ask you, so like now you’ve been around the crypto ecosystem, like what do you -- what is your sense of what this -- like what is Ethereum to you?

22:14AYeah.

22:14DSo for me, I can say like, uh, from how I’ve interacted, um, with crypto, uh, with Ethereum, and maybe even different L2s that is on, on Ethereum, I can say it’s an ecosystem. And for me at the moment, from what I’ve seen, uh, it’s an ecosystem about finance. And it has been like, you know, this technology that has made, uh, you know, payments very easy. And people are just trying like, uh, to build on top of that, like, you know, trying to solve like, you know, different, uh, issues or different challenges this product is facing every day, you know, since day one, since Uh, it was built. People are trying to build these, uh, different products, either L2s or ZK products. And right now AI is here. So for me, I think, uh, from my perspective, I can say like, you know, Ethereum is a finance infrastructure. It’s an ecosystem of different, uh, finance products.

23:34BYeah, that’s interesting. I think that one of the remarks I’ve heard recently is that, you know, we always keep on saying we’re too early for blockchain, but like, maybe it’s just that blockchain was built for AI at the end of the day. And I think it’s such a perfect verification structure for AI. But then now we’re coming to AI agents and being able to pay and make payments Like you said, I’d love to know where you think that future with blockchain is with, you know, AI as it gets more and more integrated into everyday life, just naturally of the tech getting better and better. How do you see blockchain’s role in that kind of upcoming in these next few years?

24:14DFor me, I think one thing is AI and blockchain will really come together in terms of AI will use, uh, blockchain in terms of payment. That is especially like, uh, what we call like, uh, you know, autonomous payments, uh, because even right now like, uh, there are people who are building AI chatbots, that is, uh, or even Web3 chatbots where you can just pay via your WhatsApp and So you can like, you know, just chat something and tell, say, pay this person, let’s say like $10. So I think with more integration, instead of you now typing it to be AI now doing all that stuff behind the background, like, you know, making the payments, you know, making sure they are verified, maybe even following up about a certain payment to see like, Where did these, uh, did I send this money or what happened here? Even it will help with, uh, streamlining all those payments and making them easy. Maybe even like, uh, trying to figure out like, you know, which is the best part, like, you know, to send money from here up to here without -- with reducing the cost and the price and even the time. So I think blockchain will play a very big role in terms of AI autonomous payments.

25:51AI think it’s an interesting place we’re at. It’s like, you know, I think the innovation is kind of moving so fast where we’re solving global problems to where We’re solving global finance problems, but, you know, some pieces of the world are like, okay, let’s give some money and some control to some, you know, autonomous agents and AI and stuff. It’s like the spectrum of that is pretty fascinating to me. But I do think, you know, in the future, I think a lot about, you know, younger generations. I have kids. I’m like, what are they gonna think about all this? You know, they’re probably just gonna be, you know, sending money to their AI bots, agents built into their phones or whatever, and then just, you know, transacting that way globally. It’s, it’s, it’s an interesting, you know, it’s kind of mind-blowing where we’re at as far as like solving global problems, but then also adding in the tech innovation with AI. It’s interesting, man.

26:56DYeah, for sure, for sure. I think currently we are like, um, where people were dealing like the dot-com era. Uh, because I feel like, um, AI of course would be pretty big. Of course, right now there is different limitations. Uh, there are limitations in terms of maybe like even energy, the hardware side. Uh, but as we go, that will be solved. And yes, I think like, um, it would be a very huge thing in our future generation that is, uh, the next generation, our kids, to not be like the way these days it’s optional, like the way we use it, to be almost in every, like, you know, every tool, everything we do on the internet to be easier. So yeah, I think it would be a pretty big thing.

27:54BI like that a lot. I think there’s a lot of interesting conversation being had now with big companies with AI and people laying people off and these bigger conversations with like how the overall company is doing now months later that we’re like looking at the effects of these actions. And I think it’s really interesting. You said we’re in this, we’re about to be in this dot-com same era as the dot-com era, I think is definitely history repeating itself with within AI bubble. And that I think was applicable and is always applicable every 4 years kind of to the blockchain side. And when I came into the space, Manajit always kept on telling me, you know, like, focus on the tech, focus on like what’s actually getting better, what’s actually impacting people.

27:54BAnd if you do that, at the end of the day, even during those low times, you’ll understand that if you can continue to improve what you’re doing in those low times, then when things do come back, if you believe in that product or that ecosystem, then you’ll be better than where you were at before. And I think that’s such a powerful thing. If you focus on like what you have at hand, the technology in front of you, and it’s really cool and powerful to see how you guys are doing it in like everyday payments potentially, because that’s not even something sometimes we do here in the States because we are blessed with the power of the banking system where it’s easy to send money like halfway across the States.

27:54BBut Yeah, no, I think it’s a great, great solve for some of those challenges of like cross-border payments. And yeah, I’m excited to see where blockchain kind of steps into its like role here when, when things come crashing down on the AI side. Where do we then add the verification layer with blockchain and start kind of making it part of the conversation? Because it definitely isn’t right now.

29:53DYeah, for sure, for sure. Because, uh, what I can say, you mentioned about verification, and, you know, considering like, you know, what’s happening right now with AI, especially with AI deepfakes, and they only get better to the point where you’ll not be able to, to tell like, you know, the difference when you’re shown like, you know, a deepfake photo of Marcel and the real photo. you cannot, like, you know, you’ll not be able to tell. So I think, like, we’ll need a lot of verification, verification infrastructure, like, you know, to verify everything. Because to be honest, I think right now there is a technology that can even fake your, your bank account or make -- get -- do transactions without, like, you know, without you.

29:53DBecause, uh, thinking of all the ways you maybe log into your device, maybe some people use like, you know, facial verification. With AI, that’s very easy to fake. And also like a lot of things, especially anything to do with documentation, for some things like maybe where you needed to show like a document to show like maybe I did this course AI will fake a lot of that. So I think, uh, verification will be another very big thing, but also it will mean, uh, it will need to be rethought. Like, you know, the way we used to do verification, we need to do it in a different way.

29:53DAnd maybe it’s building like an infrastructure of, uh, verification so that you can be able to know, like, you know, this person actually exists.

31:40CYou know, and so I kind of want to take us in a whole nother less technical direction. I, um, I respect you flexing your, your startup chops though.

31:52DI am --

31:52CI’m curious, like, being a content creator, right, like looking at these different tools, what’s exciting to you? What’s interesting to you? How are you thinking about -- if you watch one episode of our podcast now, how are you thinking about -- how do you feel, I guess, getting involved with us? We’re 3 content creators for sure in the space trying to establish our voice and prominence more. And so hopefully, like, you know, joining us can kind of position you similarly with your Hustle Yangu show and you can be the talk of the continent. But like, yeah, how do you see where you’re at, the opportunity, these tools? Yeah.

32:24DSo for me, maybe I can start with a lot of content tools. Uh, of course right now I think, uh, there’s a lot of, uh, tools to make, you know, content. And I think, uh, this is one of the best time, like, you know, to make content has been made easy. That is because of AI from, let’s say from chatbots like Claude or ChatGPT. It’s easier to generate a script before it would take you like days. So that has been simplified even with the free version of ChatGPT. It can do pretty good work. Then from there, maybe thinking of ways you used to record voices, maybe before you needed to go to a studio, maybe spend like maybe even like $50, you know, recording a sound.

32:24DBut right now you can just pay like $5 on tools like ElevenLabs and you get a perfect sound. In terms of now video, text to video, Uh, there are tools that can do that right now, uh, from like image generation. Most chatbots can do that, like Grok, Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini. In video, we have other tools. So, uh, for me, I can say like, uh, there’s a lot of AI tools, especially in terms of content creation, that can make, uh, content easily. But in terms of now startups, um, especially maybe Web3 startups, uh, this has even made it easy, especially the, the content side or the marketing side, easy for people building like different, uh, products that is either Web3 or any other.

32:24DThat is, uh, their marketing has been made a little bit easy right now. Maybe what they need is concepts and how to execute. I hope I answered your question.

34:38BYeah, yeah.

34:40CBut I even really meant like with Hustle Yangu, for example, where you sent me -- you made a vlog from when you were in Argentina you shared with me over the weekend. And I was curious, like, as you’ve been creating your own content, doing your own show, Like, are there tools in Web3 that you’re excited to use? Do you feel like this leaves you feeling a lot -- like, now people say you can own your own, your own audience, right? Or your relationship to your audience. Um, yeah, more in that kind of vein, like, do you see an upside to being a creator in Web3 outside of, like, the business side of it per se?

35:10DUh, for me, I can say one upside is, uh, I cannot say, like, right now there are tools that can -- that are related to Web3 that I can say have made my experience, like, uh, better. Because maybe we can start like maybe NFTs, but also I’m not like, I’m more like video-based, so I don’t know much about NFTs. But in terms of video tools or let’s say audiovisual stuff as a creator, I think I cannot say like, you know, there have been any Web3 tools or any tools related to blockchain that I important that I can say like I’ve really -- I’m excited about, or I can say have impacted my content. But in terms of content, especially through Hasoyanguwo, maybe it’s the stories I make from these. It’s the different startups I meet building stuff, and I get to tell their story.

36:27COkay. Are you excited to help us tell our story?

36:29DSorry?

36:31CI said, are you excited to help us tell our story? What do you think about our project so far?

36:35DYeah, I’m excited to tell with the media story.

36:38BI love it. Candy actually had this awesome question. Do you think blockchain is bringing us closer to solving world hunger or everybody having their basic needs?

36:52DUh, for me, I can say -- I can say --

36:54Csorry, I’m just seeing, uh, I’m just seeing the, the Twitch chat. I’m just seeing that, that Brian has all been over there going off. I’m about -- go ahead, go ahead. Sorry.

37:04DUh, for you, uh, the question was, uh, do I think like, uh, blockchain is close to helping us solve world hunger?

37:15BLike, are we on that? Do you think it’s helping us? Just solving people’s basic needs, these like challenges that we as humanity face today. Do you think blockchain is helping support that? Is there -- what are the ways that you see it?

37:28DYeah, for me, I think it is. And I can say it’s one of making -- because it has made moving money around the world easier. So that’s one of the things I can say, like, you know, the blockchain has helped, like, you know, helping solve these issues. Of course, it’s not like 100%, but when you send, uh, someone money, let’s say in Ethiopia, maybe they didn’t have food. So I think that’s, uh, something you’ve solved, and we are getting closer to that. So moving around money easily around the world, so I think that’s one of the things blockchain has helped. And moving around money around the world, of course, it contributes with, um, on solving the world hunger. And also there is the side of creating opportunities for people that is from all over the world. Because, uh, if someone from, let’s say, especially third world countries, especially countries in Africa, uh, my friend, especially my friends, it has created a lot of opportunities for, for them. And these are opportunities they could not afford in the different industries like in Kenya. So for me, I think, yes, that’s a definite -- that’s a definite yes.

38:47CI think it would be cool to go around the room, starting with you, Zal. Like, how do we see wealth inequality in general, like, in the different kinds of spaces you’ve been? You were in India earlier this year, right, Zal? And so I’m sure you got to see it there versus you live in Maine, right? It’s like, it’s like a kind of -- I think of Maine, I think of like white people, WASPy, mountains, rural.

39:13BYeah, I mean, you go a lot of ways with wealth inequality, right? I think that if you go with Candy’s question, I think that we’re definitely just like Fidesio was saying, on our way towards that, not only with the ability to make capital move from border to border, but also information, the information flow, and being able to share and collaborate on information from halfway across the world at the speed of light, I think is the power that is super missing. And like with that, I think it makes it a lot easier to do some of those things and solve some of these wealth inequality gaps, because the biggest thing that’s been pushed is just like either misinformation, but just like the, the losing the thirst for knowledge, just learning in general.

39:13BI think those 2 things together make for a much more receptive audience. So if you can help support that growth in knowledge sharing and coordination, which I think is the other thing that people are very challenged with. I think you can have a much more successful attack at trying to bridge that gap. And I think that’s what blockchain helps do. So, but like regarding locally specifically, I hadn’t been to India in like 10+ years. There was a lot of just building development, just like urbanization that like was happening around the greater Mumbai area. that not only me, but also my parents and like family, family friends, parents that hadn’t been in a while were like very surprised to see.

39:13BAnd it’s really interesting because I had just heard that they actually had elected their prime minister for like 3 terms and there’s 5-year terms, like 15 years, almost like coming up upon almost 2 decades. And that’s just nuts for me to like even conceptualize around like our challenge of the in the United States of the changing hands of power. And I think it is just a really interesting opportunity to learn more about other cultures and how different people solve different problems, because some things aren’t just communicated well. And like someone could be solving something in New Zealand halfway across the world that solves the exact problem you need to know.

39:13BYou just don’t know about that yet. So That’s where I kind of see the power. That’s where I kind of am excited. And I don’t remember what the exact question was, but I’m going to kick it over to Brian.

41:54AYeah, I kind of, I answered the, you put my answer in chat, but yeah, I think there’s a great, there’s a great spread of wealth allocation. Like Z was saying, we definitely do need like a major shock to the system as it is. I think blockchain is a good tool for communities of people to really have the tooling to be like, enough is enough. We’re going to do our own thing. You know, we can sustain ourselves for the most part. Which I think is a cool little piece of, you know, this internet tech that we’re at. I said it’ll be a long time before we solve like world hunger, but we can definitely start closing the gap. And I think it’s a good solid thing. My guy Nacho in chat, he said, he’s been talking about Paytm for a minute over in India, is a new digital payment system. Uh, pretty much greatly improved the economy. It’s not perfect by any means, but it’s helped everyone from like the smallest fruit vendor, uh, to the farmers and stuff.

42:54BYeah, I’m telling you, we went -- we were okay. So we were there for 3 weeks, uh, and I went out, I saw cousins that I hadn’t seen in 8+ years. I’m now a full-blown adult. Last -- before, I was like 6 months out of leaving my parents’ house for 18 years, and It was really fun because one of the days we went out with the cousins and I was just asking like, okay, like I don’t have cash. Like, do you have cash? She’s like, bro, not a problem. And we just pop out of the rickshaw and it’s just a QR code and you know, you just scan it and boom.

42:54BAnd then you just show the receipt of the payment, which I think is also super sketchy, but I guess it’s a whole different issue for a different time. But it was really interesting to see The innovation on that, I mean, like you said, not related to blockchain, but very powerful, like digital payment infrastructure. And now let’s say that there was the ability for at an institutional level, then, I mean, the Indian government couldn’t even do that at a blockchain institutional level. Like no one could handle that at this current moment with where we’re at. But the power of like having a centralized entity doing those things and modernizing certain systems, I think is super powerful.

42:54BAnd then one of the things I also want to mention at the end, which is interesting, is that that’s India, their digital currency, a little bit like, let’s say, behind the US where I’m from, where I’m thinking and learning. But then the US is actually pretty far behind even just like Canada in terms of digital payment infrastructure and hearing what they have over there and the power of like their Zelle is like within their bank account within itself, which is really interesting. I mean, it is very centralized if you’re looking and talking about ETH. In terms of decentralized structure, but the ability to actually have low friction in moving your money is very powerful.

42:54BAgain, that’s within a nation-state, and where blockchain is super powerful is internationally. But I think it’s really interesting and unique to see how payment structures from different systems are formed and how honestly everything can be improved upon with blockchain. But it’s how do we take it one step at a time and ensure people’s trust in the system. And why it is more beneficial than a system where, you know, you can have quid pro quo with people in the government and you have some of these backdoor dealings. So I think it’s very powerful for transparency on that front.

45:18AVery, it’s very cool to see some of the strides that, you know, different places across the globe are making. with, you know, money digitally. And yeah, it’s cool. I think --

45:38BOn the wealth inequality thing, because I’m curious to hear your thoughts on that. We’ll kick it over to Fideszio to like end it off. I know you said a little bit, but I’m curious like what their synthesis of it is.

45:49CUm, I mean, I think it’s been interesting, right? I went to ship my stuff today here in Denver and I see like this lady in her car and her car is like falling apart. And then behind her is like this truck that’s like falling apart. And there’s like this dude in like what might as well be an Escalade. And I’m just like, these people are living completely different lives in this city, you know. And it’s honestly got me thinking about it. You know, people can be in this city, right, and be living such disparate lives that I think like it can be happening under our nose, like the gap widening and becoming more visible.

45:49CAnd if we’re just, you know, stuck in routine so much, we might not really become aware of it, even if, you know, Like, I feel like resentment breeds no matter what. But I think, you know, it’s just people resenting the system, right? Resenting inequality, not resenting each other in practice, right? It’s just like the forces at play. But I think it’s -- I don’t know, it’s been interesting to travel around the world, right? And see like what it is to be like an expat in Thailand versus an actual Thai lady, like the 60-year-old lady driving around on her scooter while I smoke my joint. in Bangkok while she’s about to keep driving around, you know, I feel kind of like, dang, isn’t it crazy that I’m like 24 on the back of your scooter at 11 PM and you’re like here grinding, right?

45:49CAnd like this app, uh, it has a limit on how much I can even tip her, right? Which maybe it’s so they don’t like, you know, it’s like, you know, wrench method me, right? And take all my money. But it still was like, oh, you know, it would be nice if I could somehow tip her more, right? It’s like the max is say like $5, right? And the thing might cost $4 for 24 minutes. Like, You know, like $4, 24 minutes, you know, in the US, like I could have got on the bus and gone a couple blocks. So I think, um, for me, I think it’s just crazy that crypto has even made visible like the massive gaps, right?

45:49CUm, and I think made it possible for people to travel around the world in the way they have. And I think it’s -- I’m interested to see if crypto or blockchain really become a technology which levels the playing field. Right, for people that are at the bottom end of wealth gaps in countries where currencies are already hyperinflated, right? Because to go from poor in one currency to rich in the same currency isn’t the same to go from, like, you know, the world’s -- like, to go from, I’m a -- I got a million Vietnamese dong, I got a million US dollars. It’s like a very big, very different game.

45:49CYeah, I just think it’s like people are -- people almost have to hustle backwards to even be in the race, and that’s kind of crazy.

48:17ATotally.

48:17BI think Andy had another question for Fidesio here. What are your thoughts on Nigeria in general, where they’re at, where their culture is with the crypto adoption in comparison to Kenya?

48:28DI can say, of course, Nigeria has very, very huge crypto adoption. Even though I’ve never been into the country, but I’ve met a lot of Nigerians. I have a lot of Nigerian friends and also I use some of their products. One of the products I use from Nigeria, it’s called Onboard, and it’s more like a credit card, an online credit card. So that is, I can top it with crypto and pay for different services from Netflix, from everything. So I think they are building really, really cool stuff and stuff that actually works. And that’s one thing I can say about Nigeria. And the adoption is very, very huge. And that’s because their population is like 4 times or 5 times the Kenya population. And that, I think, has led to the adoption to be very huge. But also, I was talking to some of my friends from Nigeria, and I was asking them, like, why do you think, like, you know, Nigeria has a very big adoption compared to Kenya? And one thing, uh, they told me that contributed to that is because of the naira. Uh, the naira is shitty, like, you know, its rates compared to the US, it’s shitty. So it’s more unstable.

49:56CSo it’s --

49:57Dmost people have their savings in USDC, in USDT, because if you save in naira, you might lose half of your money in the next 2 months. So that is one thing that has contributed to that. Another thing I noted is, uh, there is, uh, the finance side, that is the fintech, uh, side of Nigeria and Kenya. In Nigeria, you go there and you realize there’s a lot of fintech startups, and these fintech startups are actually like, you know, active. They have like, you know, active numbers because like right now every time you hear a story of a a crypto startup or a fintech startup being acquired, it happens in Nigeria.

49:57DLike, uh, Stripe acquired Paystack in Nigeria. And I think, uh, the reason there’s been a lot of Web3 startups now, other than the naira being shitty, is because of, um, competition has been around. In Kenya, the fintech side is dominated by one company, it’s called Safaricom. And actually, I think it’s been one of the most impressive things that has happened in Kenya because back in the days, all the way back in 2007, you could send money through your phone that is in Kenya. Even like, I don’t know, other than smartphones, there’s the phones with just like, you know, the keyboard. They don’t have the internet, so you can just send via USSD.

49:57DSo Kenya was able to dominate, uh, that mobile money. Uh, there is a -- this company Safaricom was able to dominate mobile money, and that made it harder for other startups. Like, if you wanted to build a startup, you’d have to like compete with them. But now in Nigeria, they didn’t have this thing, so people would build a startup from all over there is Paystack, there’s Moneypoint. So there’s competition, but you’re not competing against giants. You are competing with your fellow startups, so you can actually grow from that. But I think the naira, the issues with the naira has contributed a lot with the crypto adoption.

49:57DThere’s a lot of adoption And also there was a study that was done sometimes back where they noted that most people in Nigeria have their savings in USDC. And actually Nigeria is one of the countries that is holding huge amount of, uh, US -- USD stablecoins from USDC, from USDT. I think they have even a higher, like, uh, holdings of saving, even to -- even compared to some countries, uh, in Europe. They are among the top 10, and this is explained, of course, because of the naira. But yes, I think, um, I want to throw something in.

53:11CI know I’m interrupting you, but I feel like sometimes I just need to jump in. I, um, something, something that I noticed -- I know there was like the big End SARS protest Um, in 2020, I believe, right? And a lot of money that went into that protest was like people from the diaspora and like in Nigeria, right, who were funding it through crypto. Um, and like specifically through Binance. And the country made it illegal.

53:32DYeah.

53:32CUh, but like inflation kind of fucked it. It was like, I think more than 100% over the next 2 years, right? So people are literally watching themselves not be able to afford food. And so I think all -- and then on top of that, right, there were a lot of like the, the Telegram apps Were like farming Nigerians for attention, right? Like, oh, like come tap on this hamster. Like there was some hamster game. I know the first time I went to Nigeria, like Generic and my friend Bayo were showing me this app on Telegram where you could like farm this hamster, which runs. And then there’s also like this Pi app on Telegram where you can stake your Pi that you earn over time. And so there’s a lot of kind of like liquidity-based attention.

54:10AYeah.

54:11CI won’t call them Ponzi scheme kind of things. But they’re kind of farming the massive number of people there for users so they could raise money. And so they were doing airdrops, right? So there was like a big airdrop culture as well. And so I think a lot of people who are trying to figure out how to make money, there’s like a big Yahoo Yahoo culture too, right? Which is just like --

54:27DYeah, yeah.

54:27CScamming culture, right? And so there’s already people who are on the internet trying to figure out how to finesse, and they’re just getting like, these are the new methods. Like, now we can do the airdrop farming. Like, oh, if I don’t have a wallet, you know, like Even like right now we’re doing these $100 weekly video journalism bounties, and I’m sure that for some people it’s like they don’t necessarily see a concrete other attainable path to making $100 this week. Even if they don’t make $100, like, this is the only fair shot they have at $100 this week.

54:55BYeah.

54:55CAnd I think that a lot of people don’t really get like, that’s like, you know, I think that the, the monthly wage for some people is $200, like the median income. In Nigeria, and that’s assuming you’re in a city, right? If you’re like not in a city, you could live off way less than that. And so I think that for a lot of people, it’s just been like with the economy shifting so much, and there already being an online money culture, you might say. I think a lot of those things are driving a lot younger people into crypto. And then I think you just have people who have been trying to build wealth in Nigeria, right, who are who are early to Bitcoin as well. But I think that Yahoo culture and the Insars. protests were also a big part of, you know, what will popularize crypto there for people. And then, right, those airdrop farming opportunities.

55:37DYeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. And also maybe to add something on the Yahoo culture.

55:43CWhat’s that?

55:45DThe Yahoo culture, the Yahoo thing you are talking about, the Yahoo scams.

55:51COh yeah, yeah, yeah.

55:52DThat were common in Nigeria. And someone was telling me, like, you know, when that thing was very, very huge, when crypto came in, it was like it made it go boom because, you know, crypto made receiving money from all over the world easier. So it made it go very, very huge and very big.

56:16BMm-hmm.

56:17DBut also, like, the other point I can mention is remittance. I think remittance is one thing that has contributed to, like, to the growth of crypto that is, uh, especially in Africa. And you know, the different communities, uh, sending money back in, back in Africa.

56:42CMm-hmm.

56:43DAnd I know, like you guys know, there’s a very huge, um, Somali community that is, uh, in US. And this Somali community is mostly from East Africa, mostly let’s say Somalia, but also they are from Kenya, Kenya, we have Somali community. Ethiopia, you have Somali community.

57:03CMy Uber driver with my boxes, he was Somalian.

57:06DSorry?

57:07CMy Uber driver coming back from the post office, he was Somalian.

57:10DYeah, yeah, yeah. So Somalis, Somalians are very -- there’s a big community, especially I think, um, and also we cannot fail to mention that is Minnesota. For me, that is what I know, where they say, they say in Minnesota. But also I can say like, you know, those are huge communities of Africans in different countries, either in US or in Europe, have contributed a lot in the crypto growth because at the end of the day they figured out like, you know, sending money via crypto to Africa is much more easier than using like, you know, the traditional means. So, uh, that’s, uh, one of the things that has made, uh, the crypto ecosystem grow because, uh, it’s like an actual problem that’s, uh, that’s being solved, uh, by the -- by crypto.

58:10CI want to -- I know we’re coming up on being on here for an hour, but You know, I think that you’re a good person to speak to this given that you’ve been able to travel a bit around Africa.

58:20BYeah.

58:21CYou’re kind of looking at the startup ecosystem. You’ve been able to travel, right, and see people who are pretty successful in crypto going to Argentina as well. Like, what do you feel like are some of the challenges that African founders face that you feel like are unique to African founders in East Africa or even just going to Argentina that you saw, right? Like, I feel like, yeah, I’ll just leave it there.

58:42DSo for me, I can say like the main challenge, of course, it’s resources. And resources, they can be in different forms. Even information can be a resource. And I think this has been like the main challenge that we faced at the beginning. Because I remember there was a time we were in Ethiopia with you and we were in a certain balcony, like, you know, smoking some joints, and we were saying like, uh, some technology come in Africa, but right now things have changed. But before, things used to come in Africa like, you know, technology come in Africa, uh, late with like 3 to 5 years.

59:26AMm-hmm.

59:27DBecause, uh, let’s say like an example with, uh, blockchain or crypto.

59:31CMm-hmm.

59:31DBlockchain started, uh, Let’s say in the US it was very big around back in 2015, 2016, but in countries like Kenya we were only able to really know about it or for it to be active all the way maybe around 2019, 2020. And maybe one of the things that contributed to this is because the access to the internet, the more people got access to the internet, we were able to know, now this is what people from the United States are building, this is what people from Europe are building. And that goes all down to resources, because back then people didn’t have a lot of access to internet.

59:31DAnd the reason they didn’t have access to the internet is because most of the country was not connected to electricity. So people could not get internet. And also maybe people didn’t have like, you know, smartphones. Uh, smartphones only started being active at least, let’s say around, uh, 2015. That’s when, uh, everyone could own a smartphone easily. So I think resources has been like, uh, the main challenge. And also like, uh, let’s say here in Kenya, maybe if you want to build something It would be much more harder for you, maybe even accessing, let’s say, accessing -- there is VCs, people who can fund your ideas, and maybe not even VCs, some resources.

59:31DThere are some startups you cannot build here in Kenya or in Africa because we don’t have like enough resources. So yeah, I think resources has been like the main issue. But at least, uh, we have solved, uh, like, uh, information right now. You can know what’s happening from all over the world, no matter where you are. Yeah.

61:31CThanks, man. I appreciate that. So what I heard is we got to start a fund to invest in the African-led startups and projects so we could be minority owners in the continent. We’re doing reverse colonialism. We’re minority owners now. Stop playing with it.

61:47BWell, so I’ve actually always played around with the idea of pre-coming into Web3 with like a version of Shark Tank, but we do it on Twitch with actual money, resources, and ability to like support a business longer term than just like a quick pitch, a little bit of a money grab, and like an attention opportunity, but like actually turning it into like long-term businesses with mentors and mentees. And I think it could be really cool to like have a bunch of people come up and pitch and then like You like, just like a lot of people with streaming do, you know, you have people come back just like a job interview and, and then like you have a winner for like a group in a period of time.

61:47BAnd then like we continue to like work with them and show that on, on stream and stuff. I think that could be really powerful, um, or something to that, um, extent, just straight up with this brand right here. But, uh, but yeah, amazing to have you on board the team, Fidesio. It was a pleasure to learn more. Um, I definitely learned a bunch more about African culture. And even some of the other things out there. So I’m excited to check out Onboard. I think onboard.xyz was the link that I found. I’m definitely going to check it out here. And like, I think it could be really powerful as a whole.

61:47BSo thank you for putting me on game and yeah, kick it over to you, B.

63:01CI was going to say the guy who, Fiyele, who runs Onboard, he was working at Binance, I’m pretty sure, when they got shut down by the Nigerian government. I’m pretty sure that -- I think he’s a UK -- he’s a UK Nigerian. He’s not -- he doesn’t live in Nigeria, but I’m pretty sure he was working with them at the time. Um, but yeah, I think that’s dope. I think it’s cool. I didn’t know they had like a debit card and stuff like that until you said that. Honestly, that was news to me.

63:24DYeah, they have a debit card. Yeah, I think that’s one of their very most active products because I think, uh, they -- yeah, they try to, to get into the P2P side. But Binance has already dominated that. And even me, like, you know -- sorry.

63:45CP2P is like an exchange, right? Like, just people know, like, a P2P exchange is like, as opposed to going to like Coinbase or Binance, right? Like, to off-ramp, you might have to swap with somebody who’s making look like who has an ask, right? So it’s more of like a place to go and exchange in an informal way.

64:01DYeah, yeah, yeah, P2P. Yeah, like Binance P2P. I don’t know if you have used Binance P2P, but in Kenya, like, Binance P2P is very, very big because it’s like the fastest way you can, like, you know, get money if you have crypto. Right now we don’t have, like, you know, actual product. Even Binance, I think, implemented this the other day where you can, like, sell your crypto directly from Binance and maybe receive your money on the bank or in M-Pesa, that is our mobile money. And so buying, uh, the P2P side was very huge, and the Onboard guys, uh, initially tried to get in, but there was a lot of competition. But now I think we have found a niche, uh, that is on the credit card side, and you can use it from wherever, from all over the world. I was able to use it while I was in Argentina. So I think it’s a cool product.

65:02CYeah, yeah, congrats to them. I like those guys. I met them at FWB Fest in like 2024. I’m like, who is this? Like, uh, 3 people of night -- like these 3 Nigerians. I’m pretty sure I’m like, 3 Nigerians? And none of them work together, they all work remote. And I was like, who are you all? So I think that’s pretty sick. I’m happy to -- I’m happy to hear that win. Uh, but I’ll pass it over to you, B. I’m done jumping in.

65:24ANo, you’re all good. Solid conversation. Uh, good to meet you, Fadizio, man. Good to have you aboard the squad. It’s gonna be a good time for sure, for sure, for sure.

65:34DIt’s nice meeting you all, guys.

65:36CAll right, well, thank you. You have any final words for the, for the audience, for the world? You want to teach us, uh, how to say goodbye in Swahili?

65:45DYes, I can teach you how to say Goodbye in Swahili. Maybe I can start teaching you hi. Saying hi in Swahili is we say sasa, but also we have different words for for hi. Habariyako. So, but the easiest one is sasa. But let me just tell you all.

66:10CHabariyako.

66:11DYeah, habariyako, habariyako. So that is how are you?

66:16COkay.

66:16DYeah, that’s how are you. Then we have sasa. Sasa is more like a short form. So sasa, definitely sasa as a word means now. So it’s more like you are asking someone how is it now. So instead we go with sasa, but sasa is more used to like -- how can I -- between dudes, you cannot like say sasa, but you can say to a girl like Sasa. So sasa is more like, um, it’s not cheeky, but it’s more like, you know, you use it when you’re saying hi to a girl because it’s far -- it sounds more cheeky. But, uh, between men you can say like, you know, habariyako, vp. So vp is, uh, like we have different words like of saying hi to each other. So vp, it’s like, um, it’s asking how are you. VP, it’s a short form.

67:16CSo, okay, I guess we got VP and habariyako.

67:20DYeah, yeah, yeah. So VP and habariyako.

67:25BWell, thank you so much for teaching us, uh, Fideszio. Um, appreciate it. It was, it was honestly a pleasure to have you on and Yeah, thanks again for everyone who popped in.

67:38CSee y’all.

67:40DIt was a pleasure meeting, uh, each one of you. Yeah, and I love this. I think this is a very good conversation and I enjoyed it.