James Wasonga on Blockchain in Kenya, Digital IDs for Refugees & the Creator Economy

0:02Well, yeah. Thanks for bearing with me through these technical difficulties as all my batteries seem to be depleted. But, we found one with 95%. But, the question I was just asking you before you got cut off was how do people see blockchain crypto in Kenya? What is the adoption like? Yeah, what do you think is like the most the most prevalent way people actually kind of crypto right now in Kenya? Okay. In Kenya, currently use uh Blockchain people see blockchain or do you think it’s to be a revolutionary technology? What do you mean by revolutionary technology? It’s it’s more like a secure, transparent, and everything does

0:37in blockchain is secure and transparent and good and view even transaction that on chain is very it’s very clear to everyone that in such chain like millions of transactions. So, it’s a revolutionary technology meaning the upcoming technology whereby people are diving into blockchain as a whole. Several developers, several builders, several investors, several people within Kenya as a whole, right? Let me say the entire world are aiming at blockchain because it’s a revolutionary technology. It aims to create and transparency as a whole. And another thing why people are not Another key thing that’s only being a developer why other people are like going into blockchain or crypto as a as

1:12a huge number of similar is because of its foundation of cryptocurrency. What do I mean by foundation of cryptocurrency? This aspect whereby people look at it like a money. People see it as a money like I want to have some Ethereum or can I be a trader and I get some Bitcoin? Like aim of crypto, you know all the value of Bitcoin, you know all the value of Ethereum when you transact it in your local country currency. The big equality is so people see it in different aspects like it’s aiming at driving people into such a huge case then currency itself it has people in currency trading in it,

1:42building in it. So, it’s more like worldwide like driving massive number of attraction. Yeah, I was saying people are already seeing what the exponential growth and looking at it like $30,000 maybe $97,000 for Bitcoin a week. Yeah, but it’s saying like even like a like a $500 difference in ETH like from now to to next year is like a like an exponential shift in in like maybe like the shillings now? Yeah, exactly. So it’s it’s up to people to adopt. How do you see the economy in Kenya and like this technology like I guess evolving and growing over time? Uh the economy between like any country

2:23that employs Bitcoin technology automatically between that country needs to be updated like gets to be more. That’s where the future has to come up with aspect like can it be like transaction with that first media to like several applications that are coming through whereby you have to make a payment that first change in the currency because the volume in that in that currency Bitcoin or currency or any currency of like the currency itself Ethereum, Solana, any. So like the economy any country that employs economy employs Bitcoin means the economy automatically gets to shoot up. So in Kenya uh since we are now like in Kenya we are now in in Kenya into

2:57Bitcoin like people get to advance knowledge of Bitcoin as as years go about we get to advance like vision our vision for 2025 onwards like being a country of blockchain free like every transaction by Bitcoin mining companies, Bitcoin mining machines everywhere like it’s going to be like let me say the economy as a whole like in Kenya perspective. With other countries already have like the US employing the Bitcoin as their major crypto currency trade like any country with their Bitcoin and blockchain meaning since more like let me say it’s a 100 100 as far as major GDP as gross domestic gross concern. Yeah, that’s That’s And I guess

3:37before I finally shift subjects I was curious to hear you talk about what you think the what what are like the major exports of Kenya? You know, what is what are the existing major industries in Kenya that impact the GDP? And do you see those industries, so you could adopt crypto now? Exactly. So, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. Then with the with the major GDP, the gross domestic product in Kenya like it’s mainly from the agricultural sector. What is it? Uh agricultural sector. Like agricultural tea, like tea as you said what we export as Kenya. You know Kenya exports

4:08Yeah, what did you say again? It’s tea, tea farming like tea, tea What’s the word you said? Uh tea. You said it’s the one sector? Uh agricultural agricultural agricultural agricultural sector. Yeah. So, the main export is tea like tea gets to be like Kenya but like a lot of tea in Ethiopia. You also the key tea tea tea itself in Kenya is like the main key like provided the agricultural also constant. And not only to talk about the sectors of export, maybe just like see how blockchain gets to interact with this sector of exports as part of uh blockchain for example as a whole. So, like in Kenya several applications

4:43have been developed like uh to enable farmers to be able to get paid in Bitcoin or let’s say I want to be able to pay for something like you want to sell something for some sugar to sell to me maybe from my farm. You go to the industry like I want to be able to give you cash money directly but in case I have Bitcoin or I have Ethereum or any cryptocurrency within my wallet, I can be able to send to you directly through the technology of Bitcoins. Uh the technology of blockchain I mean has been able to be implemented at several levels and several transactions can be able to

5:12transact without getting in touch with fiat money like we just send Bitcoin and you get get transacted directly. Take for the case with uh several wallets have been implemented with the same functionality. We have mini pay wallets, there is Celo built on Celo. So, blockchain is a massive uh key it’s it’s mainly in every sector of economy in each every sector in country as a whole. So, it’s very critical actually. The economy economy employs it like every individual in the country from getting into going to blockchain. Like countries like not sure which countries I know to speak about them but other countries they have restricted

5:45individuals from getting into blockchain. I think these 16 individuals from East Africa are actually all changing payment once I include them. That’s why you like if they’re normal wallet they such company we try to make I can’t see the the economic growth of the country more like depreciation. The country like it’s more like compared to lower compared to the others the information blockchain that And aside from Ethiopia, have you been to any other countries outside of Kenya? Yeah, yeah. I’ve covered almost East Africa at all like yeah, East Africa’s at all. Then again, I’m planning to more advance more and more like And what’s your perspective on like the

6:21I don’t know, I guess on East Africa. Do you feel like there is like a lot of collaboration between these countries? Are they like politically aligned? Do you feel economically do you feel like they’re leveraging each other in ways that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. East Africa East Africa is a mutual and South Africa is the mother of peace. In East Africa you move without any border. border and If you’re moving peacefully, you get to associate with any East Africa like I East Africa that I used to South Africa that I used to East Africa that I used to the same as Me moving to Kenya, it’s more easier

6:53like me moving from my big position from Ethiopia yeah, I mean Ethiopia Kenya back And if East Africa is South Africa like we are the unit of our unit of our land. We are the unit of the East, we are the South, we are the South, we are the South and South. So we are the one who gives South Africa the South. So like we are So the unity in the economic growth as far as I’m concerned, a little bit when every export compared from East Africa to East Africa is surely gets to be the tax and capital depreciation very minimal or less compared to the

7:23shifting very fast in Africa or in other parts of the world. So East Africa we say no war, no violence. So we want to bring that aspect to everything being done in East Africa. I’m very glad about it speaking on the aspect of technology. East Africa is now booming having very implementation of the way things are like everything aspect of peace becoming very high. Taking it’s a good perspective of here in Ethiopia for the past uh 4 months or 5 months I’ve been in Ethiopia. I have seen several changes between machines being in several areas here in Ethiopia. It’s a very good sign for the blockchain as a whole.

7:54Everything is uh good. And um uh I appreciate that answer, I think, you know, it really offer people a perspective on how you see these Africa East Africa see themselves, how these countries have historically engaged what you think, you know, is a special East African perspective. Yeah. Um I feel like, you know, the way that Africa is represented in the multimedia is frequently, at least what reaches the US, at least what reaches the Western world, I think it’s it’s frequently not, you know, people speaking themselves from their perspectives themselves, you know. Um so I think it’s a beautiful thing that that we got to put in the conversation,

8:28right? And kind of returning to freshman year, we are at Hack the Dot. What are you building for Hack the Dot? I mean, let’s put it really uh what I’m building for Hack the Dot uh I’m building an application uh in my country, I mean, in sub-Saharan Africa, and I do like to generate digital IDs. So what this application I am aiming at doing is basing my challenges on uh several challenges Africans face. Like in Africa, we want to make it at least where in Africa you get to like just starting with Africa, but the application is meant to go worldwide as per my uh even ability. So what this

9:00application is aiming to do what I’m building I’m building in this Hack the Dot Hackathon. So the application is aiming at we have several African several individual refugees and those who are part of the the city uh populations over 1 million usually lack various identification like IDs to for them to access data and that people etc. to access various frequently. They can’t be able to get uh financial like you want to get some loan from a financial institution, you must have a valid identification for that specific country. But in Africa, we want to make it so like like any refugee when I become refugee in Ethiopia, don’t have

9:31the basic financial in Ethiopia. How can I be able to access the finance finance uh to to get an access to loan service within Ethiopia? So how can I get it? people will be meeting today. You see this is really amazing. It’s really amazing. The app itself within that country can be able to afford biometrics. Definitely. Any valid Any valid document he has maybe from the country he’s from or anything like that. The certificate itself will be able to generate a digital ID for him. A unique ID and basically you know that several things which are related to the government to get an ID from the government like

10:09the ID of the same country which I think the person gets to be active. And I’m not aiming at working on my own on my own but I’m planning to integrate the application with government websites and government sites through partnership. So that’s the key game of African ID. We are aiming at making Africa be the country of the country of easiness like you get to be able to get something with easiness. So we still like the way African governments are doing it. I’m I’m the tech team and I’m developing the application. The African governments Everyone 11 cents And so does that mean that you can actually have a time when you can

10:42continue to roll on this project? Yeah, it’s going to be a continuous stuff to to make it be a reality. Not totally a prototype mode but a live mode. It’s a live mode. Yeah, exactly like that. A family mode. All right. Perfect. Oh, that’s dope. And so how big is your team? What What does your team look like as you’re trying to build this product? Okay. My team uh I have basically I’m proud of my team that team of capability that team of strength. Uh we have several guys team members there are very supportive Okay, very supportive of my team. So that’s that’s the ground. Like we are

11:12very so capable we believe in ourselves to implement this application. Who’s on your team though? Like shout them out if you want. Uh hopefully you get to meet the guys on my team. Uh I have several guys I have several team members they have one friend from Ghana called John. I have a friend from also from Kenya. He’s a good friend. Then also I have one friend from Kenya called Felix. Okay. So we are very so strong team. building in Kenya. And also, not only for achieving meeting others, we are already famous developers. All of them, not including others, we have several teams as well. These are just mine and those

11:44of my friends, like I said earlier. Yeah. And do you think that the majority of developers in Kenya are buying into web 3 and blockchain as well? Yes, that’s true. But now, like majority of developers There’s something coming up with the web developers in my life. When you are web 2 developer, you are not really a developer in the industry. In short, like So, several developers have been that way. So, several developers are moving into web 3 because now most applicable apps, like if you you feature your application to an investor, to a given institution, or like a given platform, and they say the same application is on web 2, like web 2

12:21is capable of being dumped at will because of security. But blockchain, like it’s like chains that link with each other. It’s the chains. So, things are very secure. Like the data is very secure. It’s 100% secure. So, that’s the aspect of web 3 that developers are building on blockchain. So, very many developers now are like 27 developers have now transitioned fully like into web 3. Like that’s the key number of web 3 developers. I appreciate that. And I ask my last two questions. We we use the word blockchain a lot. We don’t have an actual word word for what a blockchain is. Can you say in

12:54your words what a blockchain is? Okay. How about you? You may not want to I think you may not want to say it. A blockchain is a decentralized uh It’s it’s it’s an improved decentralized web 2. It’s like it’s a decentralized application like Like let me just say it’s a decentralized secure and transparent web 2 itself. So, it’s an improved web 2. Okay. So, I have Yeah. So, different people have different thoughts, but that’s what blockchain is. Okay. And is blockchain in your eyes the future of the world and you know, like people talk about Bitcoin being a world reserve currency. Do you think that’s that’s the future? Do you

13:35think like yeah, what do you feel like the role of this emerging technology is in the future of the global economy? Yeah. So, it’s true. People see blockchain it’s going to be the like starting That’s true. Knowing what it is it’s going to come down. When you become the mother of the house it’s forever you’ll be the mother after you You’re the one who will enable the children to know what the world is all about. So, Bitcoin is all like the decision of Bitcoin as a Satoshi team like it’s all going to be strong like there’s a market cap lift of price like maybe say from $100,000 to $90,000 but

14:08it still will be there the key point like the strong wall for the blockchains and the rest. But several blockchains are coming through. That’s as you say both the future of blockchain. Several blockchains are being coming out coming through into the world. Several tokens are being minted into different chain being Solana the key world of several meme coins like we have several several blockchains as a future. The future of blockchain is all like eternal future like it’s not going meme down anymore like blockchain is going to be strong. What’s the meme token? You you mentioned meme coins and so I I’d love to hear you like say

14:42you know, like if watching the future is going up, you know, but like how what is a meme coin distinct from like the rest like you know, of crypto? Yeah. In your eyes how? So, meme coins distinct from the rest of the crypto. So, like to make it break down a bit we know what Ethereum Solana is that? Solana is a right. You know what Solana Solana coin Solana as a blockchain is all about. So, meme coin the term meme coin what what why they use the term meme coin? Coming to perspective like you have a currency you can be able to your currency within week coming up this

15:17following morning then waking up the the next morning you find your currency at zero. So, this this the term meme coin not saying saying it’s it’s it’s a bad meme or bad perspective of calling it like that but that’s what it’s all about. The white papers they all the papers are generally papers about meme coins that people take. So, a meme coin to make it easy for a person who maybe want to trade or want to join perspective of creating coins. So, a meme coin like the easiest coin to create when you are a developer you are building something like you want to create a meme coin surely the meme coin.

15:48A meme coin is based on aspect like it’s value is usually lower very lower like 0.something. It’s the any coin with a a value cap market cap lower than the than the aspect of big cap that’s surely a meme coin. A meme coin is a coin that has no like it’s very it’s let me say it’s very like volatile like within 0.1 seconds its value can drop to zero you lose everything. So, it’s like a coin it’s surely not like a coin. So, it’s a it’s it’s a still it’s a coin though it’s a coin it’s not a chain but it’s a coin itself inside a chain. So,

16:17build on several like layers. So, the Solana being the mother of meme coins. So, like several developers made their coins inside Solana. So, like it’s a it’s a it’s a meme a meme coin is a coin with the least lowest value. So, I like I like different ones but that’s how I prefer like for us for the aspect of what I’m really about meme coins. So, they are Yeah, I agree with everything you said and I feel like like the biggest thing you said is like in a split second they can go to zero. Yeah. And I feel like it’s just it’s about attention. I think

16:45meme coins are all attention like it’s just a tokenized way of getting attention economy. Yeah. And people kind of gambling on where attention will be and where it has been. Um and I I definitely yeah you know people will ask me what is this stuff I said it’s just a casino. You’re a casino person meme coins are Yeah, it’s making it easy for investors to talk about this situation. Oh, how how would you define life to be about like in your perspective of meme coins? I would define it as Say your images from your initial organization. Yeah. Yeah. So, how would you define it as to

17:18be like as a for the kids like to enable them to be able to participate to be able to build something in the music industry like Mhm. Yeah, so how do you see the music industry to be able to grow more? Yeah, I mean, so that’s true. I got started in Web3 space living interested in the in the intersection of music and Web3. So, we’re a platform trying to help people sell NFTs, but you know, the the big thing with like startups, right? It’s just supposed to have a problem statement, but the like artists don’t struggle with the fact that they can’t sell NFTs. That’s not like a real industry problem.

17:48I think capturing value is a big issue. I think like middle men that are extractive are a big issue. I think people having to take concessions to find funding as creatives is a big issue. And even just sourcing funding and becoming like a like uh creative it’s not starving like starving artists are the majority of artists. Um and so, I’d say really looking at like, you know, how can you be building composable tools for creators, but also looking at like what are creatives like what what infrastructure do creatives actually like they don’t have? Um is that I think just an important question to start asking. I think

18:19is in my opinion maybe too early to say what what developers should build. I feel like not enough creatives are actually looking at what we could build. Um and so, I’d say like the most important thing is to really start creating that conversation. That’s really what I’m committed to doing here with We Them Media um is bringing together the minds, you know, with the technology, the minds thinking about economics, tokenomics, you know, but also the minds thinking about the future of the creator economy, the future of Hollywood, the future of major film production in the um I think most creatives in the world right now are are not happy. You see the

18:48writers strike you see in the US, right? Something You see musicians complaining about their deals. Um I think you see actors talking about how they don’t necessarily have the kind of benefits they want especially with AI coming into play, right? They’re getting upset, etc. Um and so, I think just starting to look at you know, what are the grievances that creatives have around these industries and you know, what does it look like to start building like uh even just like social infrastructure, right? That can offer, you know, people the opportunity to choose paths to success that don’t come with those same possessions and concerns. You know, so I don’t know if that’s

19:23really what it’s about technology, but I think it is more about the practices that we agree on, right? And then how can we in the long term give creators, I guess, some say in like what those practices that we prescribe will be. Does that make sense? How do we decentralize so they have some say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think great great think music social media big industry in the world big decentralized matter of uh matter of matter of what’s up that’s sort of musicians now this is something about the blockchain dream build us like dream musicians about it the case of Germany from Germany so they

19:57can come into the actual dance like you know if you guys for yourself always try and like there’s something about like I’m not sure about the name but it’s saying like several like uh what I can say like when you are given industry you need to create the industry like so that’s cool about sharing Yeah, I do you know who I’m talking about? Eek A the artist name, yeah? Eek A Eek A? Yeah, I think yeah. Yeah, yeah. I met him at that time and he did a presentation like their creator like creator economy space. And it was really cool being there and about channel like I’m very

20:28bullish. I feel right now we have pods like one like podcast podcasting web like web video platform and so I think it’s cool to like since I came in looking at already audio stuff, it’s cool to see how they do a new a new wave of creative applications emerging. And I think it’s cool that he’s already like creative asking the questions. I think a lot of the platforms in this space, they come in really focused on creators and then they overtime they you know burn their money and then they become concerned with like profits and then they kind of just become you know the same the same as the extractive

20:59industries which exist also to survive. That’s all. Um but I really appreciate your time. I I you sitting with me through the technical difficulties. Uh yeah, I appreciate everyone like joining up, sharing their different minds, ideas together. It’s very blessed. And do you have any final thoughts for my audience before we wrap up? Um one thing I’ll say to your audience before we wrap up, uh like you got to put it together with personal maybe just be on your own like when you’re building something like build something don’t care about what they think is. Like they usually say build take it as a stupid thing and build it.

21:34Don’t just take like what they have to do like what they have to do like whatever you have like basic problems you want to solve don’t just consider like even being given challenges that are there like pushing you on this video like build focus like that. Make it simple like begin and make it simple and stupid you so that you can build build build so that you can build. Yeah, just keep building. Yeah, just keep building. So my final thoughts to them, my fellow colleagues and the rest Any any any thoughts in Swahili? Uh enter today. Okay, I can just do the speaking but Swahili because it’s my it’s my my

22:13language my mother tongue. Uh so Uh you like what you have in hand it’s all of that going to be created at the end. You will be. All right. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in to another episode of Building the Future I’m really excited to to be here in Nairobi to be at this hackathon to be getting to see you know, just people who are super invested in this ecosystem growing in the future of the African economy, people who are interested in the future of technology. I’m just blessed to be on this journey. I’m blessed to have you here with me, Shane. So thank you again.

23:02Um yeah, thank you for listening and have a great rest of your day. I like to say booyah to my episode, so 3 2 1 Booyah. That was really